ATTN, Von Zwietracht & other libertariantards

[P3nT4gR4m]

Good old PC - guaranteed to turn every conversation into a clusterfuck or your money back! If George Orwell had thought of Political Correctness he'd have called it "Newspeak"

Anyone else fancy trying the novel approach of using your fucking brain to examine context, rather than using your dumbfuck gland to apply a wordfilter? 

[von]

Good old PC - guaranteed to turn every conversation into a clusterfuck or your money back! If George Orwell had thought of Political Correctness he'd have called it "Newspeak"

Anyone else fancy trying the novel approach of using your fucking brain to examine context, rather than using your dumbfuck gland to apply a wordfilter? 

heh, the funniest part of this:

thread topic: libertarianism
thread content: "what is the proper word for retard?"

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Here, "prevention" means we throw people in prison.  Psychologically speaking, it's non-existent for anyone other than the rich.  We don't even have proper crisis management.  Happy pills, back under your bridge, thank you for your time.

Consider all the school shootings and local bombings a result of a deficient mental health system. Well, maybe thats a bit of a generalization, but i think its a big chunk of the reason.

I think it's because the social stigma of mental illness makes it really convenient to shove those "useless eaters" under the carpet.  Out of sight, out of mind.  It's pretty horrible.

There's some initiatives to create Radio with people with psychiatric conditions, namely, Radio Colifata, Radio Podemos Volar, Radio Vilar de Voz; its very few of them, but what they attempt to do is create social presence and voice, to counteract discrimination, exclusion and stigma. I work in one of those types of initiatives and it seems to be a net positive on the patients. This is kind of the social aspects of treatment that can be done.

Is this the program where people who are mentally challenged, or were hit on the back of the head via accident; are trained to do simple tasks so they can try to fit into society, or live a some what normal life?

Dude, are you trying to minimise the stigma of mental illness and learning difficulties?

Seriously.

It's a simple question.
There's some program out that helps people do simple things so they don't feel left out, or shunned. Simple things such as emptying trash, and tying things together. A few unions are also paying them a living wage.

Look, i got the same vibe from you as Pixie, but i suppose we can assume you are simply uneducated and therefore use irritating labels to adress them.

I dont even know what "mentally challenged" means to you, i suppose you mean people with low IQs and suffer from retardation? As for "hit in the back of the head" is bordering on asshole, its a very crude expression, its appropiate term is neurological damage.

Having said that: psychiatric patients =/= people with retardation =/= neurologically damaged people

We attempt for social reintegration, but that is too much to ask for in the short-term for some of them.

I call people with down syndrome, and/or people with some sort of inherit retardation "mentally challenged". I do it out of courtesy to those people who might be sensitive to those words. I didn't know what to call people who accidentally suffered head trauma, and can't do minimal tasks.

those who end up with injuries are usually referred to as acquired brain injury. My sister has brain damage from Meningitis and comes under this category,  a developmental or learning disability (dyslexia, autism, low mental age and such) is usually from birth, and mental illness is a whole other can of worms, where science isn't sure if it's hard -wired, social. or a predisposition triggered by social factors

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Communication has failed in this thread for 3 reasons.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I'd like to see your analysis. 

And what Pergamos said about changing the words and "all retarded means is slow". At some point people realized it was shitty to use terms like "simple minded" and "idiot child" and started saying "retarded", which DOES mean "slowed down". Whatever word gets used gets picked up as an epithet (you can insult the fuck out of somebody with "special") so they start using a new word, until the words don't make sense at all. People are "mentally challenged" by the NY Times crossword and we're ALL "differently abled". IMHO "retarded" was fine. And the epithet for a willfully ignorant person is "retard", not "retarded". They even seem to be pronounced slightly differently: "ruh-tarded" vs. "RE-tard". Nobody worth a tin shit would walk up to a Down's kid and say "LOL RETARD". Admittedly there's a similarity there and I'd be happy to change if something better comes along, but not "special" or "differently abled". That's weasel wording.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

OK, I usually come down on the PC side of whatever the debate is, but in this case it comes off way too much like people looking for an excuse to be offended. Bearman has been here a while and has never shown any signs of being the kind of jackass he's been accused of being here, and was, from my perspective, genuinely asking if the kind of program Johnny works for is one of the type that he's familiar with.

Why not give him the benefit of the doubt and use it as an opportunity to inform, rather than an opportunity to berate?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, LOL @ the irony of treating his comment as if it were malicious rather than simple, given the subject matter.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Yeah, Bearman's been nothing but cool. He's not a dick.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I still reckon he's a really good long-troll and his dickishness will become apparent in due course but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt cos I want to see how it plays out

ETA: Incidentally this is how I feel about the fucking lot of you

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Naw man, Bearman's the bomb! I like that guy.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Yeah you would say that, you're one of the ringleaders 

[Nephew Twiddleton]

A non-crappy government would be one thata focused on maximum personal freedom and on providing a support structure for citizens that needed assistance.

The big disconnect is the mistaken notion that these are mutually exclusive.

Anarcho-Socialism?

Nope.  Fuck the anarcho part.  You pay for government via taxes.  Government sets shit up and runs it.  Government leaves you the hell alone if you aren't hurting other people.  Not difficult.

i think that is how anarcho-socialism is defined, tbh.

Anarchy implies lack of government.  Humans cannot behave without government.  It's the way we're wired.

yea, the idea works more on a small-scale democracy and commune type thing, so it's got holes and potential for fuck uppery, because humans.

I lean in that direction but I'm critical of it, seeing how commune style existence can suck, but on a larger scale I favour a safety net, representation of workers within their own fields/companies, and generally respecting the rights and privacy of citizens. It's marxism without the gulags and fuckery of communism.

Political Compass thinks I am an Anarcho-Socialist, but it's weighting is so damned American, and i am a filthy euro-socialist, so...

Weird you say it's "very american"...alot of americans I know who get results they don't like from that test inevitably blame it on the test being bent towards european ideals...that or loaded questions.

just interesting.

Consider the group of Americans in question. Most Americans consider the Democratic Party to be Left, for example, where as Europeans would see them as Right of Center. Then take in your average libertarian yahoo, who considers a Democrat to be the equivalent of Josef Stalin, and of course they're going to get pissy and say it's too European. But the questions did always strike me as geared towards American politics. At any rate, politics is more complex than a simple plot on an x-y graph, but they don't want to hear that either. Americans don't like things to be complex. They like a simple, all encompassing thing. Which is why libertarians exist in the first place. Well, that's not why they exist, that's how they exist. As to why, just look at the laughing carnies.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Yeah, I didn't see anything offensive out of Bearman's question, and if I did I would have given him the benefit of the doubt.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'd like to see your analysis. 

Well, Bearman came in and used inaccurate language.

1.  The reaction to this was anger, which has the effect of changing the subject to "fuck you; no, fuck YOU", even if it was said politely.  A more productive response would have been a clarification of terms; Bearman's follow up response clearly stated that he was interested in what was being done, and supported it, but the response was, again, anger.

2.  This resulted in the topic changing to that of what is and is not an acceptable description of the people in question, rather than what is being done for said people.  The original topic is gone, and therefore all communication about it has ceased, supplanted by an agenda-driven refocus on what is and is not permitted in conversation.

3.  Nobody is interested in communicating about what is being done for people with mental issues, etc. 

Here's the thing...If someone shows up yelling "LOL, RETARDS", then do whatever you like.  If someone comes in asking a serious question in an expression of interest in the topic, you either A) are interested in talking about it, so you explain the correct terms (ie, COMMUNICATE), and then discuss the topic, or B) You decide that the person is The Other, and you hound them out of the conversation to show to everyone else how ideologically pure you are.

"A" gets people on your side, and increases the pressure exerted toward your goal.  "B" drives away the potential "recruit/convert", causing them to never take the subject seriously again...But at least you get to score points with the people under the blankets with you, as you fart your way to a shinier tomorrow.

Anger doesn't gain converts or further your agenda.  It's "ME ME ME" attention-seeking.

So the question really is, "What are your goals?"

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah you would say that, you're one of the ringleaders