Turkish Protests

[Doktor Howl]

Erdogan believes he has majority support and majority support = democracy and whatever he says, as the democratically elected leader is right and just. I don't know if he's lost his mind, become corrupt with power or is really naive enough to believe what he's saying. Meanwhile President Gul is basically arguing that democracy means more than just elections and that the people should have a right to protest. Since he and Erdogan have been very close allies, this is an interesting development.

Realistically, life in Turkey is good, the economy is good, most people live very free lives (secular or conservative). Just a few months ago, Erdogan actually cut a deal with the PKK to end the violence and bring more freedom to the Kurds. The situation here is far more liberal than in Syria or Lebanon or life under Qaddafi. This would not have happened if the police had not acted so extremely in Istanbul. That extreme behavior is what drove the national response, and once the response started, it brought up everything people didn't like about Erdogan. His new laws on alcohol, his infrastructure projects (which boil down to "I'm gonna pave X and replace it with a shopping mall, new condos etc and you can STFU if you don't like it"), his conservative pro-religious comments... all of it. If the police had not become so violent, the protest would have been confined to a few hundred hippies trying to protect some trees in Istanbul.

Nice cable links also Cain, those definitely hit the nail on the head. On the Syria situation, a large number of the country want to see more action from Ankara to end the mess in Syria, another large group blame AKP for the recent Syrian attacks on the Turks (car bombs) in the east and believe he should NOT be supplying arms to the rebels. Only a very few of his core base has supported his current position on Syria.

Its just another explosive issue among many that Taksim square has been the fuse for.

I don't know if its cognitive dissonance on Erdogan's part, or if he really thinks he is in the right. Either way, I think this will have a long term impact on the AKP in the upcoming elections. For the first time, I have some doubts about him winning the election next year (his term as PM is up, but he's going to run for President).

The Kurds have been very supportive of the AKP, but in an interview with an elderly Kurdish lady in conservative dress today, they asked what she thought and she replied "I want to kill him, give me a bomb and I will shove it up his ass". I don't think this is going the way he thought it would.

You had to say that, I'm guessing.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Erdogan believes he has majority support and majority support = democracy and whatever he says, as the democratically elected leader is right and just. I don't know if he's lost his mind, become corrupt with power or is really naive enough to believe what he's saying. Meanwhile President Gul is basically arguing that democracy means more than just elections and that the people should have a right to protest. Since he and Erdogan have been very close allies, this is an interesting development.

Realistically, life in Turkey is good, the economy is good, most people live very free lives (secular or conservative). Just a few months ago, Erdogan actually cut a deal with the PKK to end the violence and bring more freedom to the Kurds. The situation here is far more liberal than in Syria or Lebanon or life under Qaddafi. This would not have happened if the police had not acted so extremely in Istanbul. That extreme behavior is what drove the national response, and once the response started, it brought up everything people didn't like about Erdogan. His new laws on alcohol, his infrastructure projects (which boil down to "I'm gonna pave X and replace it with a shopping mall, new condos etc and you can STFU if you don't like it"), his conservative pro-religious comments... all of it. If the police had not become so violent, the protest would have been confined to a few hundred hippies trying to protect some trees in Istanbul.

Nice cable links also Cain, those definitely hit the nail on the head. On the Syria situation, a large number of the country want to see more action from Ankara to end the mess in Syria, another large group blame AKP for the recent Syrian attacks on the Turks (car bombs) in the east and believe he should NOT be supplying arms to the rebels. Only a very few of his core base has supported his current position on Syria.

Its just another explosive issue among many that Taksim square has been the fuse for.

I don't know if its cognitive dissonance on Erdogan's part, or if he really thinks he is in the right. Either way, I think this will have a long term impact on the AKP in the upcoming elections. For the first time, I have some doubts about him winning the election next year (his term as PM is up, but he's going to run for President).

The Kurds have been very supportive of the AKP, but in an interview with an elderly Kurdish lady in conservative dress today, they asked what she thought and she replied "I want to kill him, give me a bomb and I will shove it up his ass". I don't think this is going the way he thought it would.

You had to say that, I'm guessing.

?

No, that's what I get from talking to the Turks. Journalists/politicians/etc have been tossed in jail, but the average Turk hasn't had any problems. IT hasn't been 'repressive' like many of the countries where Arab Spring has hit. Its certainly not America, but its been "good" for Turks compared to previous regimes... until now, of course.

But this is how it seems to be here... every time one side overthrows the other side, stuff gets better for the repressed... then eventually, it gets worse for the other side. It's like a continual flip flop between oppressing the secularists or oppressing the religious. They need a party that can balance both... but there isn't currently a party like that.

I mean, when you're a secularist living near extremist Islamic countries, you fear any action that looks like its going towards Islamism... but if you're religious, you fear any action that is headed toward nationalism/Kemalism. If you're in the middle, you're generally OK because neither side directly affects you.

Under the nationalists, you could be Muslim or Kurd... as long as you were a Turk above all, as long as you were willing to compromise your ethnic or religious views to uphold the Nation first. Under the AKP, you can be secular, but you have to deal with laws that are leaning more and more toward conservative religious views.

"You can't buy liquor at the store after 10 PM", "If college students want to wear a headscarf, they are allowed" etc.

Kemalists see the above laws as becoming more Islamic. The religious see them as reducing oppression (well the second one anyway). The liquor law that everyone is so pissed about isn't much different than in many states and European countries.

It's really absurd.

[Junkenstein]

The mayors of Antayla and Izmir have ordered that no water be given to the police to refill their water cannon vehicles. These are generally liberal/secular areas, but its quickly pitting the police against everyone.

The bold - Just like in real life.

Also:

It may be that the MHP or CHP are manipulating the situation, but Erdogan is not helping matters. This weekend he accused all the protesters of being drunks. He said that no matter what "we have decided" what to do with the park and no protest will change that. He threatened "if they bring 100,000 protesters, we can call 500,000 supporters". He said that new direction had been given to the cops about how to handle the situation, yet some of the worst police brutality has happened since then.

I'm fairly sure the police are carrying out their new directions as instructed. Situations like this there's usual the public order to the cops "Don't hurt them and be nice" with the unspoken order in the barracks of "Go to town boys. Go. To. Town." I occasionally like to imagine a "Yee-hah!" after that, it seems to go with the mentality of pretty much every nationality of cop.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

[Junkenstein]

Expected update:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22767622

Turkey's Deputy PM Bulent Arinc has apologised to protesters injured in demonstrations opposing the demolition of an Istanbul park.

The original protests over the redevelopment of Gezi Park were "just and legitimate", he said, offering to meet the organisers.

He called for the protests to end, saying they had been taken over by "terrorist elements".

The protests have escalated into five days of unrest in cities across Turkey.

"The use of excessive force shown against the people who initially started this protest with the motive of protecting the environment was wrong. And it was unfair. So I apologise to those citizens," Mr Arinc said at a news conference in Ankara.

However, he added: "I do not think we need to apologise to those who create destruction of public property in the streets and who try to prevent the freedom of the people in the streets."

I wonder if he's got the testicular fortitude to include the police in that assessment. I doubt it. Police never hurt anyone, right?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Protests are continuing and getting closer. A protest has been announced in the town nearest us... so 45 minutes away has turned into 5 minutes away.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

NTV has issued an apology for failing to cover the original protests and is now covering the situation in detail. They stated that their viewers felt betrayed and many of their employees have resigned in protest there are some videos of NTV employees leaving the building to join protesters. Several other TV channels are now covering the protests as well.

In Istanbul last night, some police joined protesters in their pro-Turkey/pro-republic chants ("Red, White, Red White" - the colors of the Turkish flag).

Meanwhile, 24 people have been arrested in Izmir for posting on social media. Most of the major news outlets are covering this in a negative way though, so its likely that they'll soon be released.

In other news, Erdogan showed up for a planned meeting with the PM of Morocco. The PM of Morocco refused to meet with him. In some of the regions where Erdogan won strong support during the election, people are holding signs apologizing for their votes, others are holding signs saying "You say you're holding back 50%, but we're already here." Thats a reference to Erdogan saying that he was holding back his supporters and if he gacve the word they would come out and 'end the protesters'. Dunno what kind of leader threatens half his population with the other half, but it appears that his comments may have actually eroded his base somewhat.

In Gezi Park, protesters are now celebrating with buffets of free food and exercise programs. The police have fallen back completely around Taksim Square/Gezi Park.

Even though the violence has calmed, the protests continue to grow in size, the protest in our local town was in the thousands of attendees and the police stood by and cheered.

Should be an interesting next few days.

ETA: Apparently Erdogan's next stop on his North Africa tour was Tunis. The Tunisians are also boycotting him and the groups invited to a state dinner with him have declined the invite.

[Reginald Ret]

NTV has issued an apology for failing to cover the original protests and is now covering the situation in detail. They stated that their viewers felt betrayed and many of their employees have resigned in protest there are some videos of NTV employees leaving the building to join protesters. Several other TV channels are now covering the protests as well.

In Istanbul last night, some police joined protesters in their pro-Turkey/pro-republic chants ("Red, White, Red White" - the colors of the Turkish flag).

Meanwhile, 24 people have been arrested in Izmir for posting on social media. Most of the major news outlets are covering this in a negative way though, so its likely that they'll soon be released.

In other news, Erdogan showed up for a planned meeting with the PM of Morocco. The PM of Morocco refused to meet with him. In some of the regions where Erdogan won strong support during the election, people are holding signs apologizing for their votes, others are holding signs saying "You say you're holding back 50%, but we're already here." Thats a reference to Erdogan saying that he was holding back his supporters and if he gacve the word they would come out and 'end the protesters'. Dunno what kind of leader threatens half his population with the other half, but it appears that his comments may have actually eroded his base somewhat.

In Gezi Park, protesters are now celebrating with buffets of free food and exercise programs. The police have fallen back completely around Taksim Square/Gezi Park.

Even though the violence has calmed, the protests continue to grow in size, the protest in our local town was in the thousands of attendees and the police stood by and cheered.

Should be an interesting next few days.

ETA: Apparently Erdogan's next stop on his North Africa tour was Tunis. The Tunisians are also boycotting him and the groups invited to a state dinner with him have declined the invite.

That could get interesting.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

NTV has issued an apology for failing to cover the original protests and is now covering the situation in detail. They stated that their viewers felt betrayed and many of their employees have resigned in protest there are some videos of NTV employees leaving the building to join protesters. Several other TV channels are now covering the protests as well.

In Istanbul last night, some police joined protesters in their pro-Turkey/pro-republic chants ("Red, White, Red White" - the colors of the Turkish flag).

Meanwhile, 24 people have been arrested in Izmir for posting on social media. Most of the major news outlets are covering this in a negative way though, so its likely that they'll soon be released.

In other news, Erdogan showed up for a planned meeting with the PM of Morocco. The PM of Morocco refused to meet with him. In some of the regions where Erdogan won strong support during the election, people are holding signs apologizing for their votes, others are holding signs saying "You say you're holding back 50%, but we're already here." Thats a reference to Erdogan saying that he was holding back his supporters and if he gacve the word they would come out and 'end the protesters'. Dunno what kind of leader threatens half his population with the other half, but it appears that his comments may have actually eroded his base somewhat.

In Gezi Park, protesters are now celebrating with buffets of free food and exercise programs. The police have fallen back completely around Taksim Square/Gezi Park.

Even though the violence has calmed, the protests continue to grow in size, the protest in our local town was in the thousands of attendees and the police stood by and cheered.

Should be an interesting next few days.

ETA: Apparently Erdogan's next stop on his North Africa tour was Tunis. The Tunisians are also boycotting him and the groups invited to a state dinner with him have declined the invite.

That could get interesting.

Yep.. I have to say I am very impressed with the Turkish people. They have always struck me as nearly as passive as Americans, but this kind of response is something we'll probably never see in America in a similar situation. I doubt the Tea Party or the Republican voters would join with Democrats over police brutality, but here even old conservative grandmothers are taking to the streets, with scarves on their heads and signs in their hands.

Erdogan has made a major miscalculation.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

TRT (Turkish Radio and Television) which is the government run broadcasting company just released a statement saying that they are being forced to run untrue news stories and not cover the protests. They also stated that they are "fed up" and can no longer support this kind of censorship.

If Erdogan can't hold on to TRT, he's really screwed the pooch.

Below is one of the reports TRT is now saying they were forced to report.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2013-06/05/c_132432958.htm

[Cain]

That's a twist.  I know journalism in Turkey tends to be a dangerous occupation, and the AKP in particular seem to focus heavily on trying to dominate the media narrative through whatever coercion and threats they can make.

A state backed institution breaking ranks also suggests they are getting support from elsewhere to allow them to do this.  Kemalists in the Army, perhaps?  State institutions are usually more, not less responsive to government pressure, which suggests countervailing pressure from elsewhere.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

That's a twist.  I know journalism in Turkey tends to be a dangerous occupation, and the AKP in particular seem to focus heavily on trying to dominate the media narrative through whatever coercion and threats they can make.

A state backed institution breaking ranks also suggests they are getting support from elsewhere to allow them to do this.  Kemalists in the Army, perhaps?  State institutions are usually more, not less responsive to government pressure, which suggests countervailing pressure from elsewhere.

Well, most of the news agencies have been inundated with protesters and even guests on news shows have been making comments or wearing t-shirts with penguins. The penguin thing was because one of the news agencies were running stories on penguins while this was going down and has become a symbol of the failure of the media. So they've been trying to run some unrelated story with a guest and the guest basically makes fun of them and redirects the conversation.

At this point, I think they're afraid that they'll lose all credibility.

I mean, up to this point, news agencies have censored themselves about running anti-government stories, and they've dropped tv shows that are anti-government, but they've still been covering the news. This is really the first time they were ordered to ignore or report lies and I think it was a bridge too far for most of them. I was very surprised that they've come out like this, but it may be that they see this as a turning point and want to make sure they're on the winning side.

Then again, it could be that the government wants them to play it this way (if I were conspiracy minded). If no one trusts the media, then they won't trust them with the next load of bull either. If they use this as a "see we're on your side" kind of move, it might restore some credibility.

Given that many employees have left, many of their actors are in the streets and social media is exposing everything, maybe they felt real pressure from that... I just don't know.

[Cain]

There's also a lot of covert pressure on news organizations to toe the line, this interview gives a few examples

http://istanbulian.blogspot.com/2013/03/on-turkish-media-what-i-told-al-jazeera.html

Because after coming to power, it seems that Erdogan systematized all his moves against media freedoms. So, his sentimental attitude against media has been transformed into a strategy for the pursuit of full control over not only in politics, but also over the whole society. It is now a norm that in developing countries, especially if the government has authoritarian tendencies, authorities tend to use all financial instruments of the state to redesign the society according to their interests. It's a common method to victimize one of the major players in a social sector to menace the others, giving them a message to behave. Such bullying doesn't support media freedoms, but undermine them. Now academics estimate that 70 percent of Turkey's media now backs the government, which is a picture that contradicts with democracy.

With the current government, some prosecutors developed a nasty habit of arresting journalists as terror suspects. Nonetheless, we fail to see any material proof to link most of them to any violent acts. Most of the "evidence" against them was either their published news stories or book drafts. Let's not forget that dictators like Bashar Assad, Moammar Qaddafi and Husnu Mubarak were also referring to the democratic opposition as terrorists.

He does say that:

Polyphony is in its cultural DNA. Neither Ottoman sultans nor military generals had been able to suppress it completely in the past. So, although it's clear that the current government pushing hard for more control over the public discourse, I believe that the polyphony will persist. In such a poliphony, it would be wrong to generalize what you call "editorial red lines." Each news outlet, even each editor, may have different editorial red lines. A major national newspaper won't have the same editorial policies with a local television in Black Sea region or an Armenian newspaper in Istanbul.

But nevertheless, there has been a strong trend towards "making an example" of one company or person, in order to intimidate the others.

I wonder if this is going to spur on the creation of the new security force that the Interior Ministry seems to want.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

A gameshow has been cancelled. They give a clue and the contestant must guess the word. For the past few days the puzzles have been things like "democratic breathing apparatus" the answer was "gas mask".

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

So on the way to pick up my passport and visa today I talked with the taxi driver about his political views, I think he summed it up beautifully:

"With AKP, laik yok (there is no secular governmemt) . Islamist... problem"
"With CHP, economy problem"
"With MHP, terrorist problem"
"All together, BOK!" (Shit!)

"Ben yazik, Ataturk. Ben yazik, Turkeyie " (I pity/am sorry for Ataturk/Turkey)