Downloading memories - the current state of play

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I just came to PD hoping to find something about the nature of consciousness and cognition, given that I have spent the last hour or so reading things about it and now my brain is churning. I especially like p3nt's take on the mind "rendering" memories from a reservoir of recorded shorthand notes. This portrays the brain as an instrument of sorts that streams experience at one's consciousness like a TV, which is in line with the popular conception of the brain as primarily a processing device.

I have lately been wondering about the nature of consciousness, and the more I read, the more I realize I know practically nothing about it despite my natural tendency to be stuck in my head analyzing my own thoughts and behaviors all the time. I have learned that "awareness" is not as conscious as I assumed.

There are people who are completely blind, but are also completely unaware that they are blind. Conversely, there are people whose visual hardware functions just fine, but who could not tell you the first thing about what they were looking at -- though they can have instinctive, physical reactions to what they see. Among many other things this means that the things I see are not the source of my consciousness.

There are people who are to various degrees disassociated from their physical surroundings. For example, a victim of a stroke for whom nothing on his left side exists at all. Not that he lacks sensory input there -- his consciousness is just completely unaware that the left side of his world is there at all. Doesn't cross his mind. So, I can infer that where I am has nothing whatsoever to do with who I am.

Other links point out that memory is unreliable and susceptible to suggestion; beliefs and assumptions and just about anything else I presently consider "true" is just as likely to be a pile of biases, assumptions, faulty logic, and magical thinking as they are to be anything worth using in my definition of myself.


Telarus provides a link above that discusses how the human brain will accept and relate to just about any sensory input it is given. Robotic body parts and virtual reality are, as far as our physical brains are concerned, just as good as where and with what we were born. The next logical step to downloading one's memories is, of course, merging one's entire consciousness with some kind of robotic or computerized hardware.

I highly doubt that science will arrive at a point where that is considered possible in my lifetime, but say they do, and they devise some method to demonstrate and assure people that it actually works. I wonder whether I would be overjoyed or horrified at such a prospect. Would virtual, conscious immortality be worth the price of knowing that my "Inner Voice" really was just the chemical and electric phenomenon of a randomly mutated blob of amino acids, after all? Would my future, computer-based self at some point in the future come to the conclusion that I'd just rather not know that, so I could go on with whatever my life looked like at that point? If not, what would that mean for my perception of humanity? If so, what fantasy would I invent or subscribe to, or what amount of my whole psyche would I be willing to part with, in order to cover it up?

This is rambling. Apologies.

[Left]

What if you're already a copy, V3x?

[tyrannosaurus vex]

What if you're already a copy, V3x?

I am. That's why I am troubled by the notion of being copied again. Have you seen what happens to the Mona Lisa after it's been through a Xerox eighteen times?

[Left]

What if you're already a copy, V3x?

I am. That's why I am troubled by the notion of being copied again. Have you seen what happens to the Mona Lisa after it's been through a Xerox eighteen times?

Well, it would explain a lot of people really well.  A copy's never quite as sharp as the original.

[P3nT4gR4m]

What if you're already a copy, V3x?

Statistically the odds that you're not are so small as to be non existent.

Basically, if you accept that, at some point in the future, hardware powerful enough to simulate your consciousness and a virtual environment will exist then it follows that such technology will become commonplace. So if there's a couple of million simulations floating about and only one real universe then the chance you're experiencing the real world and not a simulation is a couple of million to one.

[Left]

What if you're already a copy, V3x?

Statistically the odds that you're not are so small as to be non existent.

Basically, if you accept that, at some point in the future, hardware powerful enough to simulate your consciousness and a virtual environment will exist then it follows that such technology will become commonplace. So if there's a couple of million simulations floating about and only one real universe then the chance you're experiencing the real world and not a simulation is a couple of million to one.

[P3nT4gR4m]

It gets better 

Given that, we're probably in a simulation and have just about gotten to the stage where we can make our own simulations, within the simulation, is the "real" universe that our simulation running in itself a simulation?

How meta-simulated are we?

Is there a processing limit on the original or any subsequent simulations in the tree? If so, what happens when it's reached? Maybe we're the end of the line, the straw that breaks the camel's back, so to speak. Perhaps the first person to boot up a working simulation will crash what they thought was reality and the universe will suddenly turn blue, with meaningless white text filling spacetime with absolute memory addresses, exception codes and advice on what to do if the error persists after reboot

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It gets better 

Given that, we're probably in a simulation and have just about gotten to the stage where we can make our own simulations, within the simulation, is the "real" universe that our simulation running in itself a simulation?

How meta-simulated are we?

Is there a processing limit on the original or any subsequent simulations in the tree? If so, what happens when it's reached? Maybe we're the end of the line, the straw that breaks the camel's back, so to speak. Perhaps the first person to boot up a working simulation will crash what they thought was reality and the universe will suddenly turn blue, with meaningless white text filling spacetime with absolute memory addresses, exception codes and advice on what to do if the error persists after reboot

You would really like David Marusek...

[LMNO]

Then again, no matter if we're real or a simulation, it all adds up to "normal", in our experience, anyway.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Then again, no matter if we're real or a simulation, it all adds up to "normal", in our experience, anyway.

Yes... and what's the difference between "real" and "simulation" if the simulation is so detailed as to be indistinguishable from reality?

[Doktor Howl]

Then again, no matter if we're real or a simulation, it all adds up to "normal", in our experience, anyway.

Yes... and what's the difference between "real" and "simulation" if the simulation is so detailed as to be indistinguishable from reality?

If it's a simulation, I have some issues with the environment.  In fact, I'd kind of like to meet the programmers behind the Meetrack.  With shitty sticks.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Then again, no matter if we're real or a simulation, it all adds up to "normal", in our experience, anyway.

Yes... and what's the difference between "real" and "simulation" if the simulation is so detailed as to be indistinguishable from reality?

If it's a simulation, I have some issues with the environment.  In fact, I'd kind of like to meet the programmers behind the Meetrack.  With shitty sticks.

I think it's one of those "Easter Egg" things. Programmers have a fucked-up sense of humor.

[Doktor Howl]

Then again, no matter if we're real or a simulation, it all adds up to "normal", in our experience, anyway.

Yes... and what's the difference between "real" and "simulation" if the simulation is so detailed as to be indistinguishable from reality?

If it's a simulation, I have some issues with the environment.  In fact, I'd kind of like to meet the programmers behind the Meetrack.  With shitty sticks.

I think it's one of those "Easter Egg" things. Programmers have a fucked-up sense of humor.

So do I.  Arrange introduction, pls.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Then again, no matter if we're real or a simulation, it all adds up to "normal", in our experience, anyway.

Yes... and what's the difference between "real" and "simulation" if the simulation is so detailed as to be indistinguishable from reality?

If it's a simulation, I have some issues with the environment.  In fact, I'd kind of like to meet the programmers behind the Meetrack.  With shitty sticks.

I think it's one of those "Easter Egg" things. Programmers have a fucked-up sense of humor.

So do I.  Arrange introduction, pls.

I'll do my best.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

So, you're saying this:



is what God really looks like?