Prism and Verizon surveillance discussion thread

[Cain]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/10/18877589-nsa-leak-source-edward-snowden-faces-doj-investigation-and-diplomatic-game?lite

The disclosures led President Barack Obama to declare: "Nobody is listening to your telephone calls." Late last week, the president defended the programs and said Americans must understand that there are "some tradeoffs" between privacy concerns and keeping Americans safe.

Jesus, this guy sounds like Dick Cheney.   

I kinda wish it were, because if Cheney were saying it, some of the Democratic base might rouse themselves to actually argue against this shit.

America plays politics like kids used to play musical chairs.  When the music stops every 4 years, you argue the chair you're in, and you don't question it.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I vomited a rant about this on my hard drive, I think it's gonna end up getting posted elsewhere after some clean up. Suffice to say we all gotta die of something, and I'd rather get blown up by terrorists than live in a country that acts like this one.

[Doktor Howl]

I vomited a rant about this on my hard drive, I think it's gonna end up getting posted elsewhere after some clean up. Suffice to say we all gotta die of something, and I'd rather get blown up by terrorists than live in a country that acts like this one.

We don't get to see it?   

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I vomited a rant about this on my hard drive, I think it's gonna end up getting posted elsewhere after some clean up. Suffice to say we all gotta die of something, and I'd rather get blown up by terrorists than live in a country that acts like this one.

We don't get to see it?   

I want to make sure the site that posts it gets it in Google first, after that I can crosspost.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I vomited a rant about this on my hard drive, I think it's gonna end up getting posted elsewhere after some clean up. Suffice to say we all gotta die of something, and I'd rather get blown up by terrorists than live in a country that acts like this one.

The choice that seems to be getting made on my behalf seems to be between liberty and security. Well, here's the deal, I hate security. Like, totally and utterly loathe it.  I'd trade all the security in the world for a big mac and I'd throw the big mac away cos I hate big macs too. But I'm a minority. I was never properly domesticated. Seems to me most people want security above all else, hell I'm pretty sure they'd trade whole decades of the rest of their life for just one more lock on their front door.

Fucking pointless waste of biomatter the lot of them

On the plus side, increased security tends to make half the shit I get up to more illegal and, therefore, more dangerous. Win!

[Cain]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/260299/us_house_to_itu_hands_off_the_internet.html?tk=rel_news

The House resolution calls on U.S. government officials to tell the ITU and other international organizations that it is the "consistent and unequivocal policy of the United States to promote a global Internet free from government control."

That is, other government control, of course.

[Cain]

http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-and-strategy/304573-sen-feinstein-snowdens-leaks-are-treason

"I don't look at this as being a whistleblower. I think it's an act of treason," the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee told reporters.

The California lawmaker went on to say that Snowden had violated his oath to defend the Constitution.

"He violated the oath, he violated the law. It's treason."

Because, you see, America is in a state of war with the Guardian.

[Cain]

http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/10/majority-views-nsa-phone-tracking-as-acceptable-anti-terror-tactic/

A majority of Americans – 56% – say the National Security Agency's (NSA) program tracking the telephone records of millions of Americans is an acceptable way for the government to investigate terrorism, though a substantial minority – 41% – say it is unacceptable. And while the public is more evenly divided over the government's monitoring of email and other online activities to prevent possible terrorism, these views are largely unchanged since 2002, shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

[Junkenstein]

I'm sure that Poll was totally impartial. It's nice to see the the barrier for things being acceptable is still and percentage higher than 50.

25 seems to be the mark in the UK.

[Cain]

Pew do tend to be fairly rigorous when it comes to polling, actually.  Not entirely without error or fault, but mostly accurate.

[The Johnny]

Isn't there always a 5% margin of error anyhow? Just to be nitpicky about it being closer to 50%.

[Junkenstein]

That probably came out rather sarcastically. The problem with all Polls for me, is that no matter how well you write the questions you still need to interact with the populace.

And you know what those people are like.

It was of note that stuff like this ("Is government taking away X freedom {good] [bad]") never goes with the majority on the negative side. The minority becomes smaller as it's normalised and a defeatist mindset kicks in. Then there's new outrages so the old infringement is forgotten  and allowed to prosper. 

[Cain]

Sure.

But what that says is there is a large body of people who think this sort of thing is OK.  Regardless of the actual number, it's still a really large number.

[Junkenstein]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22850901

An ex-CIA employee who leaked details of US top-secret phone and internet surveillance has disappeared from his hotel in Hong Kong.

Well that was quicker than expected.

Edit - Rest of article practically worthless.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Sure.

But what that says is there is a large body of people who think this sort of thing is OK.  Regardless of the actual number, it's still a really large number.

Yup. Sooner that large body is a large rotting corpse, the better. Of course the govt agenda is to make sure the docile are all that's left. Fuck those clowns. Hopefully the terrorists will frighten them all to death.