Black Face, Brown Face, Red Face, Blue Face

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Why do you say that Zoe Saldana is not black, or imply she isn't?  She looks black, and not just her skin tone. Wikipedia suggests that her dad is Dominican.

This is just something that is bugging me, and nobody has to get hostile with the response, because I am well aware I'm derpy as hell in this subject.

Dominicans generally consider themselves Latino. And since the Haitians are black and NOBODY on earth hates any other group of people like Dominicans hate Haitians, I could see that reinforcing the Dominicanos cultural affiliation with the "Latinsphere" at the expense of the fact that many if not most of them have African lineage in their background as well.

Just a supposition on my part, but a reasonably informed one (I'd like to think).

Yeah. This.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I have no moral judgement on the issue, to paraphrase Bebek Sincap Ratatosk, I don't see race, i just see genes going around in a circle 
But this reminds me of the first time i found out about the dutch "christmas" tradition of "Zwarte Piet" (black peter), dutch santa's little helpers 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
I was shocked because I saw the dutch as extremely tolerant and non-racist people. When confronted some of them with the (i thought then) obvious issue with this, they were either shocked: "what? i never saw it like that! he's just from spain!"   or they were all like "yeah yeah, i've been told before but it's you that thinks that". Occassionally one would say "yeah, i guess you're right but I never saw it like that". I dunno...i mean the dutch did elect wilders, but on the other hand everyone i talked to seemed pretty honest in their ignorance of that image. Then again, i am a VERY poor judge of honesty -  i tend to accept things literally. 

A lot of weird shit flies in Europe that gives us the fucking willies. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-07/masked-good-friday-penitents-march-in-italy/3937514

[Bu🤠ns]

I realize this might be an unpopular idea, but Johnny Depp can play any damn thing he wants imo.

[East Coast Hustle]

I realize this might be an unpopular idea, but Johnny Depp can play any damn thing he wants imo.

There is this to consider.

[East Coast Hustle]

I don't see race

You understand that this is a ridiculous thing to say and something that could ONLY be said by someone in a position of extreme privilege, right?

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I don't see race

You understand that this is a ridiculous thing to say and something that could ONLY be said by someone in a position of extreme privilege, right?

Fucking THIS. So much this.  I find those who "don't see race" are the least likely to notice subconscious racism in themselves.

As for caribbean folks what about jamaica, barbados, and the ex commonwealth places? you've got the spanish speaking, the english speaking and the french speaking islands and I would consider that they would all identify differently(?) anyway, latina/ latino can run the gamut from pasty assed white to black and everything in between.

[Freeky]

Why do you say that Zoe Saldana is not black, or imply she isn't?  She looks black, and not just her skin tone. Wikipedia suggests that her dad is Dominican.

This is just something that is bugging me, and nobody has to get hostile with the response, because I am well aware I'm derpy as hell in this subject.

Dominicans generally consider themselves Latino. And since the Haitians are black and NOBODY on earth hates any other group of people like Dominicans hate Haitians, I could see thareinforcing the Dominicanos cultural affiliation with the "Latinsphere" at the expense of the fact that many if not most of them have African lineage in their background as well.

Just a supposition on my part, but a reasonably informed one (I'd like to think).

Thanks, dude. I was hoping someone could come and shed a bit of light on this who has better info than Wikipedia to go on.

I still say that Zoe Saldana is legit for the part of Uhura.  That's pretty much my only beef with the OP.

[Cain]

Sometimes a bit distasteful, but it depends a lot on the context.  I mean, for instance, in the case of Stark Trek, Khan was originally envisaged as a Nordic white supremacist anyway, and was only changed in order to help Gene Rodeberry reconnect with an old buddy from his military days, who happened to be a Sikh.  Plus, you know, the whole "genetically engineered ubermensch" thing.  Ricardo Montalban was a Mexican born of Spanish parents anyway, so the "original" Khan was also of European background - if a bit more tanned than Cumberbatch (not that this is a hard feat to accomplish).

I suppose it depends a lot on how critical the race of the character is to the character themselves.  Again, using the Khan example, his race is really incidental - it's his intelligence, his drive for power and his pursuit of revenge that mark him as the character he is.  So, eh, whatever.  Cumberbatch would probably not have been my first choice for the villain, but there is no doubt he plays the role superbly, and has some experience with portraying those type of characters (how far away is Khan from Sherlock?  Not very).  Same goes for the whole "Black Human Torch" debacle.

[Left]

I don't see race

You understand that this is a ridiculous thing to say and something that could ONLY be said by someone in a position of extreme privilege, right?

I was sort of waiting on her to return and respond...
But I thought the joke afterward was important to the meaning....

I have no moral judgement on the issue, to paraphrase Bebek Sincap Ratatosk, I don't see race, i just see genes going around in a circle   

In reality we were down to about 20,000 breeding pairs of humans 70,000 years ago.  This population bottleneck left us pretty homogenized as a species.
So race is a social construct, with real social penalties for not having skin privilege.  That's real.
It's also real that we're all really closely frickin' related.  Race may have social reality, but genetic? not so much.

[GrannySmith]

I don't see race

You understand that this is a ridiculous thing to say and something that could ONLY be said by someone in a position of extreme privilege, right?

Fucking THIS. So much this.  I find those who "don't see race" are the least likely to notice subconscious racism in themselves.

As for caribbean folks what about jamaica, barbados, and the ex commonwealth places? you've got the spanish speaking, the english speaking and the french speaking islands and I would consider that they would all identify differently(?) anyway, latina/ latino can run the gamut from pasty assed white to black and everything in between.

well, i don't know if it seems ridiculous to you now, i meant that i do not have a scientific definition of "race" as i accept that the variation of genes within "races" is larger than the variation of genes between the "races". I therefore see "race" as something purely cultural. And cultural things are VERY COMPLICATED to me, i have enough trouble figuring out MY OWN mixed culture, not only the ones provided by my "different race" parents but the cultures of the ethnicities and of the individuals that i incorporated so far in my life.

PS- Not accepting the term "race" as a genetic thing does not mean that i don't think racism exists - that would be ridiculous indeed.

[GrannySmith]

I don't see race

You understand that this is a ridiculous thing to say and something that could ONLY be said by someone in a position of extreme privilege, right?

I was sort of waiting on her to return and respond...
But I thought the joke afterward was important to the meaning....

I have no moral judgement on the issue, to paraphrase Bebek Sincap Ratatosk, I don't see race, i just see genes going around in a circle   

In reality we were down to about 20,000 breeding pairs of humans 70,000 years ago.  This population bottleneck left us pretty homogenized as a species.
So race is a social construct, with real social penalties for not having skin privilege.  That's real.
It's also real that we're all really closely frickin' related.  Race may have social reality, but genetic? not so much.

exactly!

[GrannySmith]

And in fact - ever since i learned about this human genetic homogeneity, i see noses and ears of people i know on other people's heads, and they appear in the most weird combinations of height,colour, size, gender, whathaveyou. I know that this could be just an illusion of mine and that genes may work differently but it appears realistic and it is very amusing

[P3nT4gR4m]

I see race. I see weight, I see hair colour, height, clothes, uniform. If I had to describe someone who was black, I'd say he was a black guy. I ain't going to fuck about with african-scotsman or person of colour or whatever euphemistical bullshit I'm supposed to. By the same token I aint going to decide that, just since the dude is chinese or an albino or a midget that he's ... something other than that colour or height.

If Johnny Depp wants to play a native american, hell if anyone wants to. Isn't it being equally fucking racist to tell them they cant, just because they're the wrong race? Yeah, forgive me for not being able to take your hypocritical bullshit even remotely seriously.

Considering the fact that what is probably going to happen is he's going to make it look like native americans are the coolest motherfuckers ever, what's the grave offence exactly?

[Wolfgang Absolutus]

I see race. I see weight, I see hair colour, height, clothes, uniform. If I had to describe someone who was black, I'd say he was a black guy. I ain't going to fuck about with african-scotsman or person of colour or whatever euphemistical bullshit I'm supposed to. By the same token I aint going to decide that, just since the dude is chinese or an albino or a midget that he's ... something other than that colour or height.

If Johnny Depp wants to play a native american, hell if anyone wants to. Isn't it being equally fucking racist to tell them they cant, just because they're the wrong race? Yeah, forgive me for not being able to take your hypocritical bullshit even remotely seriously.

Considering the fact that what is probably going to happen is he's going to make it look like native americans are the coolest motherfuckers ever, what's the grave offence exactly?

Certainly that's a point of view I can understand. I wasn't saying it's wrong in itself but that it creeps me out to see it. Maybe I should just suck it up and stop worrying about it because the times they are a changin.

[Doktor Howl]

I have no moral judgement on the issue, to paraphrase Bebek Sincap Ratatosk, I don't see race, i just see genes going around in a circle 

Easy for you to say, paleface.