Boy Legos and Girl Legos

[Bu🤠ns]

Burns, you merely posed the question. I may disagree with your conclusions about corporations and social responsibility, but my comment about men telling women that their protest is "inane social justice" is not directed at you, but at those men who either stated or agreed that it is such.

That falls under the category of "it isn't oppression because we say so, silly woman".

It's my opinion that the segregated play marketing trend and the encroachment on reproductive rights in the US are not unrelated; they are both symptoms of the same disease.

Gotcha.  I see where you're coming from.  And my conclusions are pretty fluid anyway so it's all good.  Although I'm not sure if we totally disagree...maybe closer to sorta/kinda disagree.  I think the place you're coming from is probably more hashed out than the place I'm coming from so I'll just keep reading along.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Your kid likes Legos? Get ALL THE LEGOS. I'd LIKE to see what kids would do with multiple sets. Maybe a beauty parlor with gun turrets or something.

See, that would be cool, if the "girl" sets and the "boy" sets went together, which they don't. The sizing is the same but the sets don't thematically work together and the girl sets aren't as modular so you really can't customize and interchange them the way you can with the boy ones.

Then the girl Legos ARE dumbed down. It sounds like it's essentially "Where can I put the little table and chairs this time?" 

[Pergamos]

Out of curiosity, assuming you had a boy, would you let your little boy play with the set in the second picture? How would you respond if he was bullied by his friends for playing with it? Would it go more like "they're jerks, play how you wanna play" or "well that's what you get for playing with girl toys" ?

I'd say that they were jerks, and I'd also get ready to tell him that over and over as he got older, because I would suspect he had some gender identity issues.  Those girly legos are REALLY girly (and they don't sell them around here)

why the fuck would you assume they had gender identity issues? I played with a lot of "boys" toys and I'm pretty much straight, cisgendered and have none of these issues.

or would you only assume that for a boy playing with "girly" toys?

Barbie dolls or raggedy ann, no.  Those legos yes.  If my daughter was heavily into guns I'd have the same concern, other than that, as you and others have said, being into boy toys is considered normal for girls, it doesn't indicate gender identity issues, being into girl stuff does for a boy.  It may not be right that society is that way, but it is that way and as a parent I need to be prepared to nurture and protect my child.  If I had a son who was playing with those legos, or some of the other excessively feminized toys that are out I'd assume he had gender issues and I'd be ready to deal with that by the time he came to terms with it enough to vocalize it.  And by deal with I mean reassure him that it is ok, that I know that he'll be facing more challenges than may of his peers and that I'll be there to support him through them.

right.

so assuming you have a trans kid if its a boy but not a girl isn't a bullshit assumption at all?

yea, right.

There's warning signs for girls but in our current society playing with boy toys isn't one of them.

What are the warning signs for girls, if I may ask?

Refusing to wear skirts or dresses (or makeup when she's a bit older) otherwise vigorously rejecting feminine traits and activities.  Because of societies sexism doing boy stuff isn't much of an indicator, actively spurning girl stuff means she might have gender issues or she might have some internalized misogyny, which is also going to make life hard for her.

Please

for the love of god

get an education.

I try, but every time I ask for help people call me sexist or an asshole, so it makes it kind of difficult.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Out of curiosity, assuming you had a boy, would you let your little boy play with the set in the second picture? How would you respond if he was bullied by his friends for playing with it? Would it go more like "they're jerks, play how you wanna play" or "well that's what you get for playing with girl toys" ?

I'd say that they were jerks, and I'd also get ready to tell him that over and over as he got older, because I would suspect he had some gender identity issues.  Those girly legos are REALLY girly (and they don't sell them around here)

why the fuck would you assume they had gender identity issues? I played with a lot of "boys" toys and I'm pretty much straight, cisgendered and have none of these issues.

or would you only assume that for a boy playing with "girly" toys?

Barbie dolls or raggedy ann, no.  Those legos yes.  If my daughter was heavily into guns I'd have the same concern, other than that, as you and others have said, being into boy toys is considered normal for girls, it doesn't indicate gender identity issues, being into girl stuff does for a boy.  It may not be right that society is that way, but it is that way and as a parent I need to be prepared to nurture and protect my child.  If I had a son who was playing with those legos, or some of the other excessively feminized toys that are out I'd assume he had gender issues and I'd be ready to deal with that by the time he came to terms with it enough to vocalize it.  And by deal with I mean reassure him that it is ok, that I know that he'll be facing more challenges than may of his peers and that I'll be there to support him through them.

right.

so assuming you have a trans kid if its a boy but not a girl isn't a bullshit assumption at all?

yea, right.

There's warning signs for girls but in our current society playing with boy toys isn't one of them.

What are the warning signs for girls, if I may ask?

Refusing to wear skirts or dresses (or makeup when she's a bit older) otherwise vigorously rejecting feminine traits and activities.  Because of societies sexism doing boy stuff isn't much of an indicator, actively spurning girl stuff means she might have gender issues or she might have some internalized misogyny, which is also going to make life hard for her.

Please

for the love of god

get an education.

I try, but every time I ask for help people call me sexist or an asshole, so it makes it kind of difficult.

Maybe you are confusing "society says you must have gender identity issues because of the way you act" with "you actually have gender identity issues" ?

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Out of curiosity, assuming you had a boy, would you let your little boy play with the set in the second picture? How would you respond if he was bullied by his friends for playing with it? Would it go more like "they're jerks, play how you wanna play" or "well that's what you get for playing with girl toys" ?

I'd say that they were jerks, and I'd also get ready to tell him that over and over as he got older, because I would suspect he had some gender identity issues.  Those girly legos are REALLY girly (and they don't sell them around here)

why the fuck would you assume they had gender identity issues? I played with a lot of "boys" toys and I'm pretty much straight, cisgendered and have none of these issues.

or would you only assume that for a boy playing with "girly" toys?

Barbie dolls or raggedy ann, no.  Those legos yes.  If my daughter was heavily into guns I'd have the same concern, other than that, as you and others have said, being into boy toys is considered normal for girls, it doesn't indicate gender identity issues, being into girl stuff does for a boy.  It may not be right that society is that way, but it is that way and as a parent I need to be prepared to nurture and protect my child.  If I had a son who was playing with those legos, or some of the other excessively feminized toys that are out I'd assume he had gender issues and I'd be ready to deal with that by the time he came to terms with it enough to vocalize it.  And by deal with I mean reassure him that it is ok, that I know that he'll be facing more challenges than may of his peers and that I'll be there to support him through them.

right.

so assuming you have a trans kid if its a boy but not a girl isn't a bullshit assumption at all?

yea, right.

There's warning signs for girls but in our current society playing with boy toys isn't one of them.

What are the warning signs for girls, if I may ask?

Refusing to wear skirts or dresses (or makeup when she's a bit older) otherwise vigorously rejecting feminine traits and activities.  Because of societies sexism doing boy stuff isn't much of an indicator, actively spurning girl stuff means she might have gender issues or she might have some internalized misogyny, which is also going to make life hard for her.

Please

for the love of god

get an education.

I try, but every time I ask for help people call me sexist or an asshole, so it makes it kind of difficult.

Maybe you are confusing "society says you must have gender identity issues because of the way you act" with "you actually have gender identity issues" ?

How did "I like pink" get confused with "in 6-10 years I will like gay sex"?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Out of curiosity, assuming you had a boy, would you let your little boy play with the set in the second picture? How would you respond if he was bullied by his friends for playing with it? Would it go more like "they're jerks, play how you wanna play" or "well that's what you get for playing with girl toys" ?

I'd say that they were jerks, and I'd also get ready to tell him that over and over as he got older, because I would suspect he had some gender identity issues.  Those girly legos are REALLY girly (and they don't sell them around here)

why the fuck would you assume they had gender identity issues? I played with a lot of "boys" toys and I'm pretty much straight, cisgendered and have none of these issues.

or would you only assume that for a boy playing with "girly" toys?

Barbie dolls or raggedy ann, no.  Those legos yes.  If my daughter was heavily into guns I'd have the same concern, other than that, as you and others have said, being into boy toys is considered normal for girls, it doesn't indicate gender identity issues, being into girl stuff does for a boy.  It may not be right that society is that way, but it is that way and as a parent I need to be prepared to nurture and protect my child.  If I had a son who was playing with those legos, or some of the other excessively feminized toys that are out I'd assume he had gender issues and I'd be ready to deal with that by the time he came to terms with it enough to vocalize it.  And by deal with I mean reassure him that it is ok, that I know that he'll be facing more challenges than may of his peers and that I'll be there to support him through them.

right.

so assuming you have a trans kid if its a boy but not a girl isn't a bullshit assumption at all?

yea, right.

There's warning signs for girls but in our current society playing with boy toys isn't one of them.

What are the warning signs for girls, if I may ask?

Refusing to wear skirts or dresses (or makeup when she's a bit older) otherwise vigorously rejecting feminine traits and activities.  Because of societies sexism doing boy stuff isn't much of an indicator, actively spurning girl stuff means she might have gender issues or she might have some internalized misogyny, which is also going to make life hard for her.

Please

for the love of god

get an education.

I try, but every time I ask for help people call me sexist or an asshole, so it makes it kind of difficult.

"Talking about it on the internet" =/= "getting an education". I mean, do some research, read some articles, maybe even read some books. There's absolutely no way to have a meaningful conversation with you about it at your current level of understanding of child gender development.

[Pergamos]

Out of curiosity, assuming you had a boy, would you let your little boy play with the set in the second picture? How would you respond if he was bullied by his friends for playing with it? Would it go more like "they're jerks, play how you wanna play" or "well that's what you get for playing with girl toys" ?

I'd say that they were jerks, and I'd also get ready to tell him that over and over as he got older, because I would suspect he had some gender identity issues.  Those girly legos are REALLY girly (and they don't sell them around here)

why the fuck would you assume they had gender identity issues? I played with a lot of "boys" toys and I'm pretty much straight, cisgendered and have none of these issues.

or would you only assume that for a boy playing with "girly" toys?

Barbie dolls or raggedy ann, no.  Those legos yes.  If my daughter was heavily into guns I'd have the same concern, other than that, as you and others have said, being into boy toys is considered normal for girls, it doesn't indicate gender identity issues, being into girl stuff does for a boy.  It may not be right that society is that way, but it is that way and as a parent I need to be prepared to nurture and protect my child.  If I had a son who was playing with those legos, or some of the other excessively feminized toys that are out I'd assume he had gender issues and I'd be ready to deal with that by the time he came to terms with it enough to vocalize it.  And by deal with I mean reassure him that it is ok, that I know that he'll be facing more challenges than may of his peers and that I'll be there to support him through them.

right.

so assuming you have a trans kid if its a boy but not a girl isn't a bullshit assumption at all?

yea, right.

There's warning signs for girls but in our current society playing with boy toys isn't one of them.

What are the warning signs for girls, if I may ask?

Refusing to wear skirts or dresses (or makeup when she's a bit older) otherwise vigorously rejecting feminine traits and activities.  Because of societies sexism doing boy stuff isn't much of an indicator, actively spurning girl stuff means she might have gender issues or she might have some internalized misogyny, which is also going to make life hard for her.

Please

for the love of god

get an education.

I try, but every time I ask for help people call me sexist or an asshole, so it makes it kind of difficult.

Maybe you are confusing "society says you must have gender identity issues because of the way you act" with "you actually have gender identity issues" ?

How did "I like pink" get confused with "in 6-10 years I will like gay sex"?

Gay and trans aren't the same thing and I never said that a trans person is more (or less) likely to be gay.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Lego made a statement about how it spent millions of dollars on research to expand the Lego experience to include girls. And it came up with the 'Friends' theme which includes the beauty salon and a cafe as opposed to Hogwarts and pirate ships. The sets for the 'friends' are primarily pink and purple. The sets not for the 'friends' are all colors. The packaging for the 'friends' set is pink and purple. The sets not in the 'friends' line are either blue or a variety of colors.

And the 'friends' theme is Lego SPECIFICALLY marketing to girls. Where the game-play isn't focused on actually building the sets but playing with them after they're already built so there's less emphasis on being creative and playing with the kits as you please and much more do it this way so your dollies will be happy.

Right, and like I said I acknowledge that this product does nothing to improve the cultural preconceptions about gender identity and gender roles. But Lego is soft of damned if they do and damned if they don't here. Either they're preaching at little girls to do things the Girl Way, or they're preaching at everyone else to Stop Telling Little Girls What They Should Be. Being a company that exists primarily to sell toys and make a profit, they are obviously going to behave in a way that makes them money. And in this case, whatever research they did told them that they would make money selling to little girls this way.

Again, I'm not saying it's "right" for them to do it this way, only that it isn't Lego's job to tell society what it believes. Society sets the standards, and Lego responds with products that fit those standards, because that's what will make them money. There's a certain cycle there, where society bases its self-image on what's sitting on store shelves, but that doesn't mean it's Lego's job to make the first move.

If it isn't Lego's job to make the first move (love how you facilely abdicated all corporations of any social responsibility, there) then it's ours, by being vocally disgusted with their product and marketing, isn't it?

Yes! Of course! I don't object to the outrage, but I don't understand the tone and the target. I agree it's unfortunate (beyond unfortunate, poor word choice, but bear with me it's late) to be marketing toys by capitalizing on gender-binary thinking when we should be well past that by now. I just think Lego is a symptom of the fucked up culture, not a source of it.

Also this particular topic sort of hits me weirdly because it sounds like "pink flowery girly stuff shouldn't exist because it reinforces stupid stereotypes," and I'd be inclined to agree if it weren't for the fact that this kind of toy is exactly what my own daughter loves, and reinforcing gender stereotypes is the last thing that's allowed in our home. So the argument can't be as simple as that.

I think the outrage is because people love Lego, and essentially want/expect better of them.

And they could have made pink/flowery/girly all they wanted with much less outrage, had they simply integrated the pink/flowery/girly into currently existing Lego themes such as City rather than segregating it into a separate world.

[Pergamos]

Out of curiosity, assuming you had a boy, would you let your little boy play with the set in the second picture? How would you respond if he was bullied by his friends for playing with it? Would it go more like "they're jerks, play how you wanna play" or "well that's what you get for playing with girl toys" ?

I'd say that they were jerks, and I'd also get ready to tell him that over and over as he got older, because I would suspect he had some gender identity issues.  Those girly legos are REALLY girly (and they don't sell them around here)

why the fuck would you assume they had gender identity issues? I played with a lot of "boys" toys and I'm pretty much straight, cisgendered and have none of these issues.

or would you only assume that for a boy playing with "girly" toys?

Barbie dolls or raggedy ann, no.  Those legos yes.  If my daughter was heavily into guns I'd have the same concern, other than that, as you and others have said, being into boy toys is considered normal for girls, it doesn't indicate gender identity issues, being into girl stuff does for a boy.  It may not be right that society is that way, but it is that way and as a parent I need to be prepared to nurture and protect my child.  If I had a son who was playing with those legos, or some of the other excessively feminized toys that are out I'd assume he had gender issues and I'd be ready to deal with that by the time he came to terms with it enough to vocalize it.  And by deal with I mean reassure him that it is ok, that I know that he'll be facing more challenges than may of his peers and that I'll be there to support him through them.

right.

so assuming you have a trans kid if its a boy but not a girl isn't a bullshit assumption at all?

yea, right.

There's warning signs for girls but in our current society playing with boy toys isn't one of them.

What are the warning signs for girls, if I may ask?

Refusing to wear skirts or dresses (or makeup when she's a bit older) otherwise vigorously rejecting feminine traits and activities.  Because of societies sexism doing boy stuff isn't much of an indicator, actively spurning girl stuff means she might have gender issues or she might have some internalized misogyny, which is also going to make life hard for her.

Please

for the love of god

get an education.

I try, but every time I ask for help people call me sexist or an asshole, so it makes it kind of difficult.

"Talking about it on the internet" =/= "getting an education". I mean, do some research, read some articles, maybe even read some books. There's absolutely no way to have a meaningful conversation with you about it at your current level of understanding of child gender development.

Just so I can have a conversation on a forum?  I mean, you are fun to talk with and all, but I have more valuable uses for my time.  My real life trans friends seem to feel I'm educated enough to have a conversation with about this sort of thing so I'm afraid if that is your standard I'll just have to be content to be ignored.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Burns, you merely posed the question. I may disagree with your conclusions about corporations and social responsibility, but my comment about men telling women that their protest is "inane social justice" is not directed at you, but at those men who either stated or agreed that it is such.

That falls under the category of "it isn't oppression because we say so, silly woman".

It's my opinion that the segregated play marketing trend and the encroachment on reproductive rights in the US are not unrelated; they are both symptoms of the same disease.

Gotcha.  I see where you're coming from.  And my conclusions are pretty fluid anyway so it's all good.  Although I'm not sure if we totally disagree...maybe closer to sorta/kinda disagree.  I think the place you're coming from is probably more hashed out than the place I'm coming from so I'll just keep reading along.

Keep talking, even when people disagree; as long as we're arguing honestly, with the intention to understand or to authentically persuade, argument is productive, IMO.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Your kid likes Legos? Get ALL THE LEGOS. I'd LIKE to see what kids would do with multiple sets. Maybe a beauty parlor with gun turrets or something.

See, that would be cool, if the "girl" sets and the "boy" sets went together, which they don't. The sizing is the same but the sets don't thematically work together and the girl sets aren't as modular so you really can't customize and interchange them the way you can with the boy ones.

Then the girl Legos ARE dumbed down. It sounds like it's essentially "Where can I put the little table and chairs this time?" 

Yep

plus the little figures are stupid and too big and don't come apart or have movable legs and wrists like normal min figs.

[Bu🤠ns]

Out of curiosity, assuming you had a boy, would you let your little boy play with the set in the second picture? How would you respond if he was bullied by his friends for playing with it? Would it go more like "they're jerks, play how you wanna play" or "well that's what you get for playing with girl toys" ?

I'd say that they were jerks, and I'd also get ready to tell him that over and over as he got older, because I would suspect he had some gender identity issues.  Those girly legos are REALLY girly (and they don't sell them around here)

why the fuck would you assume they had gender identity issues? I played with a lot of "boys" toys and I'm pretty much straight, cisgendered and have none of these issues.

or would you only assume that for a boy playing with "girly" toys?

Barbie dolls or raggedy ann, no.  Those legos yes.  If my daughter was heavily into guns I'd have the same concern, other than that, as you and others have said, being into boy toys is considered normal for girls, it doesn't indicate gender identity issues, being into girl stuff does for a boy.  It may not be right that society is that way, but it is that way and as a parent I need to be prepared to nurture and protect my child.  If I had a son who was playing with those legos, or some of the other excessively feminized toys that are out I'd assume he had gender issues and I'd be ready to deal with that by the time he came to terms with it enough to vocalize it.  And by deal with I mean reassure him that it is ok, that I know that he'll be facing more challenges than may of his peers and that I'll be there to support him through them.

right.

so assuming you have a trans kid if its a boy but not a girl isn't a bullshit assumption at all?

yea, right.

There's warning signs for girls but in our current society playing with boy toys isn't one of them.

What are the warning signs for girls, if I may ask?

Refusing to wear skirts or dresses (or makeup when she's a bit older) otherwise vigorously rejecting feminine traits and activities.  Because of societies sexism doing boy stuff isn't much of an indicator, actively spurning girl stuff means she might have gender issues or she might have some internalized misogyny, which is also going to make life hard for her.

Please

for the love of god

get an education.

I try, but every time I ask for help people call me sexist or an asshole, so it makes it kind of difficult.

FWIW, I didn't think you were being sexist or an asshole but then my pov isn't very specific with these kinds of issues.  Some folks around these parts tend to have some pretty strong feelings with these ideas and are rather unforgiving with their expectations :P. 

From where I'm sitting it looks like your generality clashed with some specific ideas. 

Up your game, son or fuhgeddaboudit

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Out of curiosity, assuming you had a boy, would you let your little boy play with the set in the second picture? How would you respond if he was bullied by his friends for playing with it? Would it go more like "they're jerks, play how you wanna play" or "well that's what you get for playing with girl toys" ?

I'd say that they were jerks, and I'd also get ready to tell him that over and over as he got older, because I would suspect he had some gender identity issues.  Those girly legos are REALLY girly (and they don't sell them around here)

why the fuck would you assume they had gender identity issues? I played with a lot of "boys" toys and I'm pretty much straight, cisgendered and have none of these issues.

or would you only assume that for a boy playing with "girly" toys?

Barbie dolls or raggedy ann, no.  Those legos yes.  If my daughter was heavily into guns I'd have the same concern, other than that, as you and others have said, being into boy toys is considered normal for girls, it doesn't indicate gender identity issues, being into girl stuff does for a boy.  It may not be right that society is that way, but it is that way and as a parent I need to be prepared to nurture and protect my child.  If I had a son who was playing with those legos, or some of the other excessively feminized toys that are out I'd assume he had gender issues and I'd be ready to deal with that by the time he came to terms with it enough to vocalize it.  And by deal with I mean reassure him that it is ok, that I know that he'll be facing more challenges than may of his peers and that I'll be there to support him through them.

right.

so assuming you have a trans kid if its a boy but not a girl isn't a bullshit assumption at all?

yea, right.

There's warning signs for girls but in our current society playing with boy toys isn't one of them.

What are the warning signs for girls, if I may ask?

Refusing to wear skirts or dresses (or makeup when she's a bit older) otherwise vigorously rejecting feminine traits and activities.  Because of societies sexism doing boy stuff isn't much of an indicator, actively spurning girl stuff means she might have gender issues or she might have some internalized misogyny, which is also going to make life hard for her.

Please

for the love of god

get an education.

I try, but every time I ask for help people call me sexist or an asshole, so it makes it kind of difficult.

"Talking about it on the internet" =/= "getting an education". I mean, do some research, read some articles, maybe even read some books. There's absolutely no way to have a meaningful conversation with you about it at your current level of understanding of child gender development.

Just so I can have a conversation on a forum?  I mean, you are fun to talk with and all, but I have more valuable uses for my time.  My real life trans friends seem to feel I'm educated enough to have a conversation with about this sort of thing so I'm afraid if that is your standard I'll just have to be content to be ignored.

Done, and done!

[Bu🤠ns]

Your kid likes Legos? Get ALL THE LEGOS. I'd LIKE to see what kids would do with multiple sets. Maybe a beauty parlor with gun turrets or something.

See, that would be cool, if the "girl" sets and the "boy" sets went together, which they don't. The sizing is the same but the sets don't thematically work together and the girl sets aren't as modular so you really can't customize and interchange them the way you can with the boy ones.

Then the girl Legos ARE dumbed down. It sounds like it's essentially "Where can I put the little table and chairs this time?" 

Yep

plus the little figures are stupid and too big and don't come apart or have movable legs and wrists like normal min figs.

Yeah, that part totally sucks.  The only characters you can incorporate from the standard sets are Hagrid, the Hulk or the Hogwart's troll...so much for a traditional marriage(!)

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Your kid likes Legos? Get ALL THE LEGOS. I'd LIKE to see what kids would do with multiple sets. Maybe a beauty parlor with gun turrets or something.

See, that would be cool, if the "girl" sets and the "boy" sets went together, which they don't. The sizing is the same but the sets don't thematically work together and the girl sets aren't as modular so you really can't customize and interchange them the way you can with the boy ones.

Then the girl Legos ARE dumbed down. It sounds like it's essentially "Where can I put the little table and chairs this time?" 

Yep

plus the little figures are stupid and too big and don't come apart or have movable legs and wrists like normal min figs.

Yeah, that part totally sucks.  The only characters you can incorporate from the standard sets are Hagrid, the Hulk or the Hogwart's troll...so much for a traditional marriage(!)

Hagrid?

B-b-b-bestiality!!!!