Boy Legos and Girl Legos

[Cain]

Anita Sarkeesian probably isn't wrong about Lego...but since she so horribly butchered her review of Borderlands 2 and the role of Angel, I have a hard time taking her entirely seriously.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

How many male social-worker action figures do you see in the boy's aisle?


Should I start picketing Wal-Mart because they don't sell toys representing every career option that exists?

Hamleys in London, and The Entertainer, here in the UK have stopped gender separation of toys. Boots the Chemist, too. they are now based on crafts, construction and the type of play rather than by gender.

the whole practice of separating toys by gender is bollocks, imho. Science kits for boys are proper science kits, science kits for girls are on how to make makeup.

Well, it's not like WalMart puts up "Boys Only!" signs in the aisle of Matchbox cars.  I dunno, when my daughter wanted Thomas the Tank Engine toys, I just walked to the aisle with those toys and bought them.  No one jumped out of the wall to force me to buy her a pink doll.

At the risk of sounding like I agree with RWHN, I agree with RWHN. Maybe it's my privilege talking, but I really don't see why this is an affront to social equality. I surely agree that it does nothing to eliminate gender-binary preconceptions -- and by not eliminating those preconceptions, it actively encourages them -- but I can't muster any anger about it any more than I object on moral grounds to having gender-segregated restrooms (actually I object to that practice much more, because everyone has to tinkle, and nobody HAS to buy Legos). But it isn't like anyone is enforcing anything here, or even intentionally engineering anything. It's pretty much entirely passive. The companies that make these toys, and the companies that sell them, do so because that is what people expect to see in stores and that is what people respond to. They are there to make money, not change the world.

If it is unacceptable for these things to exist the way they do, then let's have that conversations and do something about it. Stage boycotts, write angry letters, plaster the Internet with disgust, and basically do exactly what's happening here. But let's talk less about how there are people in places of authority or market dominance "enforcing" something, and more about what can be done to get the General Public to stop responding in a way that encourages them to keep doing it.

If people saw this toy and went "meh," and opted for something else instead, Lego would stop making it. Neither Lego nor Walmart are enforcing anything here, they're reflecting general sentiment. And that's all they're ever going to do, because they are a toy maker and a retail store, not social action networks. No one is going to write a letter angry enough to get Walmart or Lego to switch from a profit-based business model to one based on "Let's enlighten the ignorant masses."

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

Again, you can still get gender-neutral lego block sets so I don't see why this is an issue.  I mean, sure, it is an issue if you let the TV and the TV alone influence what your kids want to play with.  Otherwise, the parent has full control over that situation.

The TV . . . and the product packaging . . . and the product itself. It all serves to reinforce the idea that girl Legos are different than boy Legos and the two shouldn't be swapped. If you buy the regular buckets off of Amazon, it is less of a problem, unless your kid wants the sets or access to the customized minifigs and pieces. Pirate ships, Hogwarts, and fire-fighters are going to be slathered with male stereotypes including male minifigs and such. The cafe, vet's office, and beauty salon are going to be pink and purple and have those Bratz doll knock off figurines.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Besides, you can still just get a regular ole tub of gender neutral Legos if you want them.  So just keep your kids out of the pink aisles or order them on Amazon.

What if boys want toys from the pink aisles? what is wrong with separating toys by the type of play rather than the gender of the kid?

girls toys suck as dolls foster empathy. you seem to be implying that :O "girls" toys have no learning value.

There's nothing wrong with it, but if a store doesn't do it, there is nothing stopping you from buying any toy for any kid.  And with the internet, you don't even need to go into store if that is a big deal.

We live in a society where for boys being told that they do anything "like a girl" is a massive insult. Girls toys seem to come in pink, pink, pink, lilac and more pink, it's the how they are marketed that is bullshit, as well as the bullshit assumptions that science and engineering toys are only for boys (THAT really pisses me off and actually there is a correlation in the lack of women in STEM fields and it being a bit of a sausage fest) and vice versa for teaching and nursing. Play is a form of education and if we want girls and boys not to be constrained by gender when it comes to ambition and imagination then segregating toys by gender is limiting.  If as you say, there is nothing wrong with segregating toys by the type of play rather than gender why the fuck are we as adults imposing gender roles on them?

from Pinkstinks.co.uk

Our second, smaller campaign, challenged Sainsbury's and its sexist labelling of children's dressing-up clothes. Whereby doctor's outfits were labelled for boys, nurse and beautician outfits were of course tagged - girl.

Some kids aren't as lucky to have parents that won't give them shit for choosing the "wrong" toys. 

I would say from my experience growing up as a tomboy that girls playing with "boy's" toys isn't considered bad or weird, but i know dudes whose fathers freaked when they played dress up in a dress or played with toy kitchens and made disparaging remarks.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

http://www.naeyc.org/content/what-research-says-gender-typed-toys

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

How many male social-worker action figures do you see in the boy's aisle?


Should I start picketing Wal-Mart because they don't sell toys representing every career option that exists?

Hamleys in London, and The Entertainer, here in the UK have stopped gender separation of toys. Boots the Chemist, too. they are now based on crafts, construction and the type of play rather than by gender.

the whole practice of separating toys by gender is bollocks, imho. Science kits for boys are proper science kits, science kits for girls are on how to make makeup.

Well, it's not like WalMart puts up "Boys Only!" signs in the aisle of Matchbox cars.  I dunno, when my daughter wanted Thomas the Tank Engine toys, I just walked to the aisle with those toys and bought them.  No one jumped out of the wall to force me to buy her a pink doll.

At the risk of sounding like I agree with RWHN, I agree with RWHN. Maybe it's my privilege talking, but I really don't see why this is an affront to social equality. I surely agree that it does nothing to eliminate gender-binary preconceptions -- and by not eliminating those preconceptions, it actively encourages them -- but I can't muster any anger about it any more than I object on moral grounds to having gender-segregated restrooms (actually I object to that practice much more, because everyone has to tinkle, and nobody HAS to buy Legos). But it isn't like anyone is enforcing anything here, or even intentionally engineering anything. It's pretty much entirely passive. The companies that make these toys, and the companies that sell them, do so because that is what people expect to see in stores and that is what people respond to. They are there to make money, not change the world.

If it is unacceptable for these things to exist the way they do, then let's have that conversations and do something about it. Stage boycotts, write angry letters, plaster the Internet with disgust, and basically do exactly what's happening here. But let's talk less about how there are people in places of authority or market dominance "enforcing" something, and more about what can be done to get the General Public to stop responding in a way that encourages them to keep doing it.

If people saw this toy and went "meh," and opted for something else instead, Lego would stop making it. Neither Lego nor Walmart are enforcing anything here, they're reflecting general sentiment. And that's all they're ever going to do, because they are a toy maker and a retail store, not social action networks. No one is going to write a letter angry enough to get Walmart or Lego to switch from a profit-based business model to one based on "Let's enlighten the ignorant masses."

Lego made a statement about how it spent millions of dollars on research to expand the Lego experience to include girls. And it came up with the 'Friends' theme which includes the beauty salon and a cafe as opposed to Hogwarts and pirate ships. The sets for the 'friends' are primarily pink and purple. The sets not for the 'friends' are all colors. The packaging for the 'friends' set is pink and purple. The sets not in the 'friends' line are either blue or a variety of colors.

And the 'friends' theme is Lego SPECIFICALLY marketing to girls. Where the game-play isn't focused on actually building the sets but playing with them after they're already built so there's less emphasis on being creative and playing with the kits as you please and much more do it this way so your dollies will be happy.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

How many male social-worker action figures do you see in the boy's aisle?


Should I start picketing Wal-Mart because they don't sell toys representing every career option that exists?

Hamleys in London, and The Entertainer, here in the UK have stopped gender separation of toys. Boots the Chemist, too. they are now based on crafts, construction and the type of play rather than by gender.

the whole practice of separating toys by gender is bollocks, imho. Science kits for boys are proper science kits, science kits for girls are on how to make makeup.

Well, it's not like WalMart puts up "Boys Only!" signs in the aisle of Matchbox cars.  I dunno, when my daughter wanted Thomas the Tank Engine toys, I just walked to the aisle with those toys and bought them.  No one jumped out of the wall to force me to buy her a pink doll.

At the risk of sounding like I agree with RWHN, I agree with RWHN. Maybe it's my privilege talking, but I really don't see why this is an affront to social equality. I surely agree that it does nothing to eliminate gender-binary preconceptions -- and by not eliminating those preconceptions, it actively encourages them -- but I can't muster any anger about it any more than I object on moral grounds to having gender-segregated restrooms (actually I object to that practice much more, because everyone has to tinkle, and nobody HAS to buy Legos). But it isn't like anyone is enforcing anything here, or even intentionally engineering anything. It's pretty much entirely passive. The companies that make these toys, and the companies that sell them, do so because that is what people expect to see in stores and that is what people respond to. They are there to make money, not change the world.

If it is unacceptable for these things to exist the way they do, then let's have that conversations and do something about it. Stage boycotts, write angry letters, plaster the Internet with disgust, and basically do exactly what's happening here. But let's talk less about how there are people in places of authority or market dominance "enforcing" something, and more about what can be done to get the General Public to stop responding in a way that encourages them to keep doing it.

If people saw this toy and went "meh," and opted for something else instead, Lego would stop making it. Neither Lego nor Walmart are enforcing anything here, they're reflecting general sentiment. And that's all they're ever going to do, because they are a toy maker and a retail store, not social action networks. No one is going to write a letter angry enough to get Walmart or Lego to switch from a profit-based business model to one based on "Let's enlighten the ignorant masses."

actually campaigning IS what stopped Hamleys, the Entertainer, and Boots in the UK to stop segregating toys by gender.

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

I just wanted to say that I am not particularly disgusted or up-in-arms about the topic. Just wanted to post my answer to Bu*ns' question and point out some things. But I'm not going to get my torch and pitchfork out for this. I thought the woman in Pixie's video mapped everything out really well.

Personally, if I'm going to buy Legos, I get the big tubs and avoid the kits all together. That doesn't help anyone wanting the space ship parts or whatnot, but since last time I bought Legos I was building an altar set-up out of them, it didn't really bother me. :P

The idea of a toy that fosters creativity and imagination is should do just that. But it shouldn't do so by reinforcing damaging messages of what's appropriate based on gender or cultural stereotypes that have proven to be harmful in so many ways.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Lego made a statement about how it spent millions of dollars on research to expand the Lego experience to include girls. And it came up with the 'Friends' theme which includes the beauty salon and a cafe as opposed to Hogwarts and pirate ships. The sets for the 'friends' are primarily pink and purple. The sets not for the 'friends' are all colors. The packaging for the 'friends' set is pink and purple. The sets not in the 'friends' line are either blue or a variety of colors.

And the 'friends' theme is Lego SPECIFICALLY marketing to girls. Where the game-play isn't focused on actually building the sets but playing with them after they're already built so there's less emphasis on being creative and playing with the kits as you please and much more do it this way so your dollies will be happy.

Right, and like I said I acknowledge that this product does nothing to improve the cultural preconceptions about gender identity and gender roles. But Lego is soft of damned if they do and damned if they don't here. Either they're preaching at little girls to do things the Girl Way, or they're preaching at everyone else to Stop Telling Little Girls What They Should Be. Being a company that exists primarily to sell toys and make a profit, they are obviously going to behave in a way that makes them money. And in this case, whatever research they did told them that they would make money selling to little girls this way.

Again, I'm not saying it's "right" for them to do it this way, only that it isn't Lego's job to tell society what it believes. Society sets the standards, and Lego responds with products that fit those standards, because that's what will make them money. There's a certain cycle there, where society bases its self-image on what's sitting on store shelves, but that doesn't mean it's Lego's job to make the first move.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Lego made a statement about how it spent millions of dollars on research to expand the Lego experience to include girls. And it came up with the 'Friends' theme which includes the beauty salon and a cafe as opposed to Hogwarts and pirate ships. The sets for the 'friends' are primarily pink and purple. The sets not for the 'friends' are all colors. The packaging for the 'friends' set is pink and purple. The sets not in the 'friends' line are either blue or a variety of colors.

And the 'friends' theme is Lego SPECIFICALLY marketing to girls. Where the game-play isn't focused on actually building the sets but playing with them after they're already built so there's less emphasis on being creative and playing with the kits as you please and much more do it this way so your dollies will be happy.

Right, and like I said I acknowledge that this product does nothing to improve the cultural preconceptions about gender identity and gender roles. But Lego is soft of damned if they do and damned if they don't here. Either they're preaching at little girls to do things the Girl Way, or they're preaching at everyone else to Stop Telling Little Girls What They Should Be. Being a company that exists primarily to sell toys and make a profit, they are obviously going to behave in a way that makes them money. And in this case, whatever research they did told them that they would make money selling to little girls this way.

Again, I'm not saying it's "right" for them to do it this way, only that it isn't Lego's job to tell society what it believes. Society sets the standards, and Lego responds with products that fit those standards, because that's what will make them money. There's a certain cycle there, where society bases its self-image on what's sitting on store shelves, but that doesn't mean it's Lego's job to make the first move.

advertising and the gender of kids in adverts plays a part in this, I personally would like more mixed-gender adverts. Gender roles in society influence what toys we buy for kids which in turn enforces the gender roles in society. Play is one of the places we can break the cycle as consumers and as adults, so I think putting pressure on toy companies and retailers is important.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

How many male social-worker action figures do you see in the boy's aisle?


Should I start picketing Wal-Mart because they don't sell toys representing every career option that exists?

I see you're still in "villain of PD" mode...

No, I'm in "posting my opinion in a thread" mode.  Is that okay?

Really? Because you jumped to angry strawmans awful fast.

[AFK]

Again, you can still get gender-neutral lego block sets so I don't see why this is an issue.  I mean, sure, it is an issue if you let the TV and the TV alone influence what your kids want to play with.  Otherwise, the parent has full control over that situation.

The TV . . . and the product packaging . . . and the product itself. It all serves to reinforce the idea that girl Legos are different than boy Legos and the two shouldn't be swapped. If you buy the regular buckets off of Amazon, it is less of a problem, unless your kid wants the sets or access to the customized minifigs and pieces. Pirate ships, Hogwarts, and fire-fighters are going to be slathered with male stereotypes including male minifigs and such. The cafe, vet's office, and beauty salon are going to be pink and purple and have those Bratz doll knock off figurines.

Gee, could maybe the parents step in and talk to their kids and guide them in their imaginative play wants and purchases?  If you are so worried that your son playing with a Harry Potter set is going to turn him unto some unempathetic, stereotypical Male monster, then steer him towards the generic sets.  Problem solved. 

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

Lego made a statement about how it spent millions of dollars on research to expand the Lego experience to include girls. And it came up with the 'Friends' theme which includes the beauty salon and a cafe as opposed to Hogwarts and pirate ships. The sets for the 'friends' are primarily pink and purple. The sets not for the 'friends' are all colors. The packaging for the 'friends' set is pink and purple. The sets not in the 'friends' line are either blue or a variety of colors.

And the 'friends' theme is Lego SPECIFICALLY marketing to girls. Where the game-play isn't focused on actually building the sets but playing with them after they're already built so there's less emphasis on being creative and playing with the kits as you please and much more do it this way so your dollies will be happy.

Right, and like I said I acknowledge that this product does nothing to improve the cultural preconceptions about gender identity and gender roles. But Lego is soft of damned if they do and damned if they don't here. Either they're preaching at little girls to do things the Girl Way, or they're preaching at everyone else to Stop Telling Little Girls What They Should Be. Being a company that exists primarily to sell toys and make a profit, they are obviously going to behave in a way that makes them money. And in this case, whatever research they did told them that they would make money selling to little girls this way.

Again, I'm not saying it's "right" for them to do it this way, only that it isn't Lego's job to tell society what it believes. Society sets the standards, and Lego responds with products that fit those standards, because that's what will make them money. There's a certain cycle there, where society bases its self-image on what's sitting on store shelves, but that doesn't mean it's Lego's job to make the first move.

Why not, when they had such a good thing going pre-80's? Why couldn't they have maintained that trend instead of morphing into a more gender-segregated stereotype enforcing experience?

Continue with an updated theme like this:



Instead of this:

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

EWWWWWWWW

That's the first I've seen of this shit and EWWWWWWWWWW.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Again, you can still get gender-neutral lego block sets so I don't see why this is an issue.  I mean, sure, it is an issue if you let the TV and the TV alone influence what your kids want to play with.  Otherwise, the parent has full control over that situation.

The TV . . . and the product packaging . . . and the product itself. It all serves to reinforce the idea that girl Legos are different than boy Legos and the two shouldn't be swapped. If you buy the regular buckets off of Amazon, it is less of a problem, unless your kid wants the sets or access to the customized minifigs and pieces. Pirate ships, Hogwarts, and fire-fighters are going to be slathered with male stereotypes including male minifigs and such. The cafe, vet's office, and beauty salon are going to be pink and purple and have those Bratz doll knock off figurines.

Gee, could maybe the parents step in and talk to their kids and guide them in their imaginative play wants and purchases?  If you are so worried that your son playing with a Harry Potter set is going to turn him unto some unempathetic, stereotypical Male monster, then steer him towards the generic sets.  Problem solved.

you are using a bullshit straw man argument.  please, shut the fuck up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZn_lJoN6PI

again, as the feminine is seen on a cultural level as being inferior or vapid, not all parents are going to offer their kids more than the blue or pink aisle or give them shit for choosing the "wrong" one.