Oh those wacky DEA Agents

[AFK]

upstanding

Disagree on this point. More likely knuckle-dragging.

You are entitled to that stereotypical, discriminatory opinion.

[Faust]

And you know, he probably is an upstanding, law abiding citizen. But, that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Sure it does, it means we are out there doing what we do to help our communities and keep them safe.  Not going out of our way to make innocent people miserable.  The program outlined in the OP, if accurate, is definitely troubling and not something I support.  It would also be a mistake to think the same for everyone employed by DEA.  It's a big agency with a lot of staff.

Well I agree that clandestine operations like that probably wouldn't be common knowledge to most of the grunts and toilet cleaner and canteen staff.

Of course anyone who did gather evidence and falsify the investigative process should in my mind be immediately jailed, and all their convictions overturned as it would cast very large doubts over every single one of them.

[Reginald Ret]

And you know, he probably is an upstanding, law abiding citizen. But, that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Sure it does, it means we are out there doing what we do to help our communities and keep them safe.  Not going out of our way to make innocent people miserable.  The program outlined in the OP, if accurate, is definitely troubling and not something I support.  It would also be a mistake to think the same for everyone employed by DEA.  It's a big agency with a lot of staff.

Well I agree that clandestine operations like that probably wouldn't be common knowledge to most of the grunts and toilet cleaner and canteen staff.

Of course anyone who did gather evidence and falsify the investigative process should in my mind be immediately jailed, and all their convictions overturned as it would cast very large doubts over every single one of them.

And the same treatment for every single one of their superiors.

[AFK]

And you know, he probably is an upstanding, law abiding citizen. But, that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Sure it does, it means we are out there doing what we do to help our communities and keep them safe.  Not going out of our way to make innocent people miserable.  The program outlined in the OP, if accurate, is definitely troubling and not something I support.  It would also be a mistake to think the same for everyone employed by DEA.  It's a big agency with a lot of staff.

Well I agree that clandestine operations like that probably wouldn't be common knowledge to most of the grunts and toilet cleaner and canteen staff.

Of course anyone who did gather evidence and falsify the investigative process should in my mind be immediately jailed, and all their convictions overturned as it would cast very large doubts over every single one of them.

Sure, I agree with that, anyone who was doing anything illegal should be tried, and if convicted, punished.


What I'm saying is, based upon my interactions with people at all levels at that agency, is that I think you would find that those individuals would be in the minority, and that most there are just doing the job of protecting our communities from the scourge of illicit drugs. 


Because make no mistake, drugs are having a HUGE impact on our country.  Both in blood and treasure.

[AFK]

Not having drug policies and not having those policies enforced is not an option.  Having them enforced smarter, better, and in an equitable fashion, of course, are necessary options.

[Lord Cataplanga]

And you know, he probably is an upstanding, law abiding citizen. But, that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Sure it does, it means we are out there doing what we do to help our communities and keep them safe.  Not going out of our way to make innocent people miserable.  The program outlined in the OP, if accurate, is definitely troubling and not something I support.  It would also be a mistake to think the same for everyone employed by DEA.  It's a big agency with a lot of staff.

Well I agree that clandestine operations like that probably wouldn't be common knowledge to most of the grunts and toilet cleaner and canteen staff.

Of course anyone who did gather evidence and falsify the investigative process should in my mind be immediately jailed, and all their convictions overturned as it would cast very large doubts over every single one of them.

And the same treatment for every single one of their superiors.

This could backfire. If the superiors find themselves at risk, they might decide to help cover up the crimes of their employees (so they  themselves won't go to jail).

Not having drug policies and not having those policies enforced is not an option.  Having them enforced smarter, better, and in an equitable fashion, of course, are necessary options.

What about having better policies instead of enforcing bad ones?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

And you know, he probably is an upstanding, law abiding citizen. But, that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Sure it does, it means we are out there doing what we do to help our communities and keep them safe.  Not going out of our way to make innocent people miserable.  The program outlined in the OP, if accurate, is definitely troubling and not something I support.  It would also be a mistake to think the same for everyone employed by DEA.  It's a big agency with a lot of staff.

Well I agree that clandestine operations like that probably wouldn't be common knowledge to most of the grunts and toilet cleaner and canteen staff.

Of course anyone who did gather evidence and falsify the investigative process should in my mind be immediately jailed, and all their convictions overturned as it would cast very large doubts over every single one of them.

Sure, I agree with that, anyone who was doing anything illegal should be tried, and if convicted, punished.


What I'm saying is, based upon my interactions with people at all levels at that agency, is that I think you would find that those individuals would be in the minority, and that most there are just doing the job ...

This bit I can actually agree with. I don't think that 'most' employees of the DEA would be involved in gathering information and hunting down drug dealers. They do a lot of other things as well, so people not in the job where this sort of thing applies, probably don't know shit about it. However, if the DEA agents who have a job where this sort of thing would apply are involved, then its a really bad sign for the agency overall.

The guys who are out 'educating' kids about drugs or running "bring in your old prescriptions" drives may be completely innocent of any involvement (though I'd bet that some... perhaps many, of them would support the action if they knew about it). The issue though, is that if the OP is accurate and if this is sanctioned by the top brass at the DEA then we have a very serious issue which not only taints and tarnishes the 'nice guys' you know, but also indicates that the "drug war" is being used as yet another excuse to stomp on civil liberties... again.

That's the killer... just like the War on Terror. Yes the war got rid of some really bad dudes/really bad drugs, but there are so many badwrong things mixed in with it, that the gain on one side isn't worth the loss on the other.

There are lots of nice guys in the military. I bet a lot of them never raped/murdered innocent civilians. There are nice guys in Defense and Intelligence communities, many of whom probably never spy on US citizens. That, though, has little bearing on the problem presented by the institution itself.

[Doktor Howl]

Not going out of our way to make innocent people miserable. 

[MMIX]

Not having drug policies and not having those policies enforced is not an option.  Having them enforced smarter, better, and in an equitable fashion, of course, are necessary options.

"necessary options"?
"necessary options"
"necessary options"

NB the equitable application of the law should NEVER be an


OPTION

you might try googling "contradiction in terms"

That you can even use language like that is why so many people around here are reacting badly to things you have been saying recently.

[AFK]

Not having drug policies and not having those policies enforced is not an option.  Having them enforced smarter, better, and in an equitable fashion, of course, are necessary options.

What about having better policies instead of enforcing bad ones?

In a general sense, yes.  The devil is in the details.

[AFK]

Not having drug policies and not having those policies enforced is not an option.  Having them enforced smarter, better, and in an equitable fashion, of course, are necessary options.

"necessary options"?
"necessary options"
"necessary options"

NB the equitable application of the law should NEVER be an


OPTION

you might try googling "contradiction in terms"

That you can even use language like that is why so many people around here are reacting badly to things you have been saying recently.

Right, shouldn't be an option, but the reality is that treating people equitably is always optional, speaking in strictly technical terms.  People should be treatd equitably, things should be enforced and enacted equitably, but it's pretty safe to say that often doesn't happen.

[MMIX]

Right, shouldn't be an option, but the reality is that treating people equitably is always optional, speaking in strictly technical terms.  People should be treatd equitably, things should be enforced and enacted equitably, but it's pretty safe to say that often doesn't happen.

Ok, could you try unpacking that first sentence, please.

[AFK]

Read the news on any given day.  People should be treated equitable.  The news on a daily basis reminds you that for many people in this world, they view it as optional.  Thus why I used the term "necessary option".  Which yes, in the end means it is still optional for the actor.  I was simply conveying that, in the specific topic being discussed, my view is that it is necessary for equitable enforcement.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

And you know, he probably is an upstanding, law abiding citizen. But, that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Sure it does, it means we are out there doing what we do to help our communities and keep them safe.  Not going out of our way to make innocent people miserable.  The program outlined in the OP, if accurate, is definitely troubling and not something I support.  It would also be a mistake to think the same for everyone employed by DEA.  It's a big agency with a lot of staff.

Reread the sentence. Being an upstanding, law abiding citizen (not necessarily talking about you, or anyone in the DEA) doesn't mean that you're a good person who's actually helping people. Being upstanding and law abiding just means you're fitting a role. As far as we know, Mitt Romney is an upstanding and law abiding citizen. We also know he's a complete asshole with self-serving interests.

[Doktor Howl]

So, what we have is a situation in which the enforcement agency can do whatever the hell it likes with respect to this issue...And all we need to do is make sure that people act in a pure fashion.

Smells like Captain Utopia.