OH SHIT FUCK YEAH

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I rarely get excited about Huffpo articles, but I really like this one and it relates strongly to discussions we've had here:

Dear Parents of White Children,

I vote that we strike the following from our parental lexicon:

1.   "Everybody is equal."

2.   "We're all the same underneath our skin."

I realize this is counterintuitive. But I'm completely serious.

These statements are so abstract they're mostly meaningless when handed to a 7- (or even 17) year-old. That's at best. At worst, they're empty filler -- stand-ins for the actual conversations about race, racial difference and racism we need to be having with our kids.

Sugar when our kids need protein.

Yet, if white college students are to be believed, these statements are standard in many white households.

My students write racial autobiography papers. It's a pretty straightforward assignment: describe the impact of racial identity in your life -- not race generally, but your race and any significant experiences, teachings and thoughts pertaining to that identity at various life stages. I require that they interview two family members about their experiences of and beliefs about being "x." (As it turns out, this is a really hard assignment for white students for reasons that are important and revealing. More on that in another venue.)

Time and again, my white students write that "everybody's equal" is the "most important" thing their parents taught them about race. Time and again, a not-insignificant number of them then proceed to describe their present trepidation about a.) telling their parents they date interracially; b.) bringing home a Latino/a or black classmate; c.) Thanksgiving break, when everyone will silently tolerate the family member who makes racist comments; or d.) something else that reveals how deeply and clearly these students know this "most important teaching" doesn't mean a hell of a lot to their actual white experience.

Hmmmmm.

Few notice the contradiction they have themselves managed to describe in the space of only four pages.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-harvey/dear-parents-of-white-children_b_3719818.html

[LMNO]

WARNING: BITTER TEA ALERT.

[Triple Zero]

Not sure if strictly related, but as a kid I grew up in a rather small, very white village. And I was taught these, or very similar things. Most importantly that discrimination is bad. When I moved to larger places, the first couple of times seeing or meeting a coloured person, I felt this anxiety: SHIT BE CAREFUL I MUST NOT DISCRIMINATE THEM. Fortunately it got less with more exposure, to the point I'm pretty sure that thought it hardly even there (even though that test from the other thread showed there's still a "slight" effect. though I think there's more factors to that than what I was taught about equality when young).

[East Coast Hustle]

I wish somebody had made me do that assignment when I was in school.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Not sure if strictly related, but as a kid I grew up in a rather small, very white village. And I was taught these, or very similar things. Most importantly that discrimination is bad. When I moved to larger places, the first couple of times seeing or meeting a coloured person, I felt this anxiety: SHIT BE CAREFUL I MUST NOT DISCRIMINATE THEM. Fortunately it got less with more exposure, to the point I'm pretty sure that thought it hardly even there (even though that test from the other thread showed there's still a "slight" effect. though I think there's more factors to that than what I was taught about equality when young).

Yeah, I think the tension generated by the message really undermines people's ability to relate to people who look different. The undertones of WE DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DIFFERENCES in particular is very counterproductive.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Not sure if strictly related, but as a kid I grew up in a rather small, very white village. And I was taught these, or very similar things. Most importantly that discrimination is bad. When I moved to larger places, the first couple of times seeing or meeting a coloured person, I felt this anxiety: SHIT BE CAREFUL I MUST NOT DISCRIMINATE THEM. Fortunately it got less with more exposure, to the point I'm pretty sure that thought it hardly even there (even though that test from the other thread showed there's still a "slight" effect. though I think there's more factors to that than what I was taught about equality when young).

Yeah, I think the tension generated by the message really undermines people's ability to relate to people who look different. The undertones of WE DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DIFFERENCES in particular is very counterproductive.

Well, it's a progression thing.

1.  Enslavement.
2.  Emancipation.
3.  Jim Crow.
4.  Figuring out that Jim Crow is bad, but what about my property values?
5.  Realizing that all people are humans.  This is when people make well-intentioned comments like "I don't see color" that are offensive as hell but not deliberately so.

THEN

6.  Realizing that all people are humans, BUT that differences DO exist, and that those differences are not only okay, but good for society in general.  Also realizing that color - for example - DOES still make a hell of a lot of difference for the people who HAVE to "see" it, because they ARE it, and because there are still very real social and career impediments to people because of it. 

THEN

7.  Focusing on those remaining impediments, rather than congratulating themselves on how progressive they are toward...you know...Those People.

Right now, most of America is stuck somewhere between 5 & 6, with about 20% somewhere between 3 & 4.  I don't know many people at 6, and I don't know ANYONE at 7, and this includes myself, though I'm working on that.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I rarely get excited about Huffpo articles, but I really like this one and it relates strongly to discussions we've had here:

Dear Parents of White Children,

I vote that we strike the following from our parental lexicon:

1.   "Everybody is equal."

2.   "We're all the same underneath our skin."

I realize this is counterintuitive. But I'm completely serious.

These statements are so abstract they're mostly meaningless when handed to a 7- (or even 17) year-old. That's at best. At worst, they're empty filler -- stand-ins for the actual conversations about race, racial difference and racism we need to be having with our kids.

Sugar when our kids need protein.

Yet, if white college students are to be believed, these statements are standard in many white households.

My students write racial autobiography papers. It's a pretty straightforward assignment: describe the impact of racial identity in your life -- not race generally, but your race and any significant experiences, teachings and thoughts pertaining to that identity at various life stages. I require that they interview two family members about their experiences of and beliefs about being "x." (As it turns out, this is a really hard assignment for white students for reasons that are important and revealing. More on that in another venue.)

Time and again, my white students write that "everybody's equal" is the "most important" thing their parents taught them about race. Time and again, a not-insignificant number of them then proceed to describe their present trepidation about a.) telling their parents they date interracially; b.) bringing home a Latino/a or black classmate; c.) Thanksgiving break, when everyone will silently tolerate the family member who makes racist comments; or d.) something else that reveals how deeply and clearly these students know this "most important teaching" doesn't mean a hell of a lot to their actual white experience.

Hmmmmm.

Few notice the contradiction they have themselves managed to describe in the space of only four pages.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-harvey/dear-parents-of-white-children_b_3719818.html

Yes very much agree. I think "everyone is equal" and "we're all the same under our skin" are filler, or an obsolete mantra of sorts. There was a generation (or, is a generation) of Whites who grew up in a world where racism was the default state. Ignoring for a moment that racism is still the default, I mean that open, socially-reinforced, legally enforced racism was very much the status quo. As a result, as race relations began to change, and there began to be a social expectation that racism be moved past, it almost makes sense that people to whom racial equality feels like a completely alien concept would invent these mantras.

"Everyone is equal"

"We are all the same under our skin."

These are counterproductive (or at least meaningless) when you're talking about addressing the underlying prejudices and assumptions that go along with default racism; but when you're talking about simply altering outward behavior without altering inward beliefs and tendencies, these statements could serve the purpose of a conscious reminder not to behave in a way that would be considered overtly racist.

I guess I'm just saying that there was a time when these imperfect statements served a strictly practical purpose, but I agree that they're not enough anymore. They don't say enough, they don't take enough of the realities of race into consideration, and they don't do anything to address the fact that only privileged White people get to say things like "everyone is equal" or "I don't see race."

Of course, there's also the problem where recognizing that this is going on doesn't necessarily give a person any idea what to actually do about it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Not sure if strictly related, but as a kid I grew up in a rather small, very white village. And I was taught these, or very similar things. Most importantly that discrimination is bad. When I moved to larger places, the first couple of times seeing or meeting a coloured person, I felt this anxiety: SHIT BE CAREFUL I MUST NOT DISCRIMINATE THEM. Fortunately it got less with more exposure, to the point I'm pretty sure that thought it hardly even there (even though that test from the other thread showed there's still a "slight" effect. though I think there's more factors to that than what I was taught about equality when young).

Yeah, I think the tension generated by the message really undermines people's ability to relate to people who look different. The undertones of WE DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DIFFERENCES in particular is very counterproductive.

Well, it's a progression thing.

1.  Enslavement.
2.  Emancipation.
3.  Jim Crow.
4.  Figuring out that Jim Crow is bad, but what about my property values?
5.  Realizing that all people are humans.  This is when people make well-intentioned comments like "I don't see color" that are offensive as hell but not deliberately so.

THEN

6.  Realizing that all people are humans, BUT that differences DO exist, and that those differences are not only okay, but good for society in general.  Also realizing that color - for example - DOES still make a hell of a lot of difference for the people who HAVE to "see" it, because they ARE it, and because there are still very real social and career impediments to people because of it. 

THEN

7.  Focusing on those remaining impediments, rather than congratulating themselves on how progressive they are toward...you know...Those People.

Right now, most of America is stuck somewhere between 5 & 6, with about 20% somewhere between 3 & 4.  I don't know many people at 6, and I don't know ANYONE at 7, and this includes myself, though I'm working on that.

You probably know some people of color who are at 7, though.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I rarely get excited about Huffpo articles, but I really like this one and it relates strongly to discussions we've had here:

Dear Parents of White Children,

I vote that we strike the following from our parental lexicon:

1.   "Everybody is equal."

2.   "We're all the same underneath our skin."

I realize this is counterintuitive. But I'm completely serious.

These statements are so abstract they're mostly meaningless when handed to a 7- (or even 17) year-old. That's at best. At worst, they're empty filler -- stand-ins for the actual conversations about race, racial difference and racism we need to be having with our kids.

Sugar when our kids need protein.

Yet, if white college students are to be believed, these statements are standard in many white households.

My students write racial autobiography papers. It's a pretty straightforward assignment: describe the impact of racial identity in your life -- not race generally, but your race and any significant experiences, teachings and thoughts pertaining to that identity at various life stages. I require that they interview two family members about their experiences of and beliefs about being "x." (As it turns out, this is a really hard assignment for white students for reasons that are important and revealing. More on that in another venue.)

Time and again, my white students write that "everybody's equal" is the "most important" thing their parents taught them about race. Time and again, a not-insignificant number of them then proceed to describe their present trepidation about a.) telling their parents they date interracially; b.) bringing home a Latino/a or black classmate; c.) Thanksgiving break, when everyone will silently tolerate the family member who makes racist comments; or d.) something else that reveals how deeply and clearly these students know this "most important teaching" doesn't mean a hell of a lot to their actual white experience.

Hmmmmm.

Few notice the contradiction they have themselves managed to describe in the space of only four pages.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-harvey/dear-parents-of-white-children_b_3719818.html

Yes very much agree. I think "everyone is equal" and "we're all the same under our skin" are filler, or an obsolete mantra of sorts. There was a generation (or, is a generation) of Whites who grew up in a world where racism was the default state. Ignoring for a moment that racism is still the default, I mean that open, socially-reinforced, legally enforced racism was very much the status quo. As a result, as race relations began to change, and there began to be a social expectation that racism be moved past, it almost makes sense that people to whom racial equality feels like a completely alien concept would invent these mantras.

"Everyone is equal"

"We are all the same under our skin."

These are counterproductive (or at least meaningless) when you're talking about addressing the underlying prejudices and assumptions that go along with default racism; but when you're talking about simply altering outward behavior without altering inward beliefs and tendencies, these statements could serve the purpose of a conscious reminder not to behave in a way that would be considered overtly racist.

I guess I'm just saying that there was a time when these imperfect statements served a strictly practical purpose, but I agree that they're not enough anymore. They don't say enough, they don't take enough of the realities of race into consideration, and they don't do anything to address the fact that only privileged White people get to say things like "everyone is equal" or "I don't see race."

Of course, there's also the problem where recognizing that this is going on doesn't necessarily give a person any idea what to actually do about it.

I see recognizing that it's going on as part of actually doing something, to tell the truth. It's that whole "power of calling something by name" thing, as opposed to looking away and pretending it isn't happening.

Naming racism upsets people, it really really does. Even (or maybe especially) when it's unconscious, unrecognized, and for that matter, UNWANTED racism. But shining a light on it has a way of making people think about it, and thinking about it has a way of changing behaviors... especially when they're behaviors the person didn't consciously choose to enact in the first place, but were merely unconsciously perpetuating because it's what they learned and they've never thought about it.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I come from a long, lily white line of Southern Conservatives. In fact the article in the OP struck me precisely because it reminded me of the time when I was 5 or 6 when my dad said "I'm no racist, I think everyone is equal. I just don't agree with interracial marriage." Coming from a background like that means that despite what I like to assume about myself, there is a greater-than-I'm-comfortable-with chance that I carry some racist shit with me. Pretending I have erased it all has to be delusional.

This distresses me quite a bit, and I try to seek out these areas where I harbor unconscious racism, and fix them. Of course, with only white-based news and white-based friends and family, there's only so much I am even capable of detecting, let alone fixing, on my own. As I spend more time in NYC I'm discovering a lot of shit that I don't like about the way I think about race, to be honest. Like being apprehensive about walking to a restaurant in Harlem last night. I don't think I have any "superiority" type racism, but I apparently have a healthy dose of "I belong south of Central Park, not up here" type racism, which makes me a little sick. But the more I'm exposed to the reality of the situation, the less I feel that.

Becoming more comfortable in a more accurate version of the world than the one I was raised to believe in, is probably one of my favorite things about living in general.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I come from a long, lily white line of Southern Conservatives. In fact the article in the OP struck me precisely because it reminded me of the time when I was 5 or 6 when my dad said "I'm no racist, I think everyone is equal. I just don't agree with interracial marriage." Coming from a background like that means that despite what I like to assume about myself, there is a greater-than-I'm-comfortable-with chance that I carry some racist shit with me. Pretending I have erased it all has to be delusional.

This distresses me quite a bit, and I try to seek out these areas where I harbor unconscious racism, and fix them. Of course, with only white-based news and white-based friends and family, there's only so much I am even capable of detecting, let alone fixing, on my own. As I spend more time in NYC I'm discovering a lot of shit that I don't like about the way I think about race, to be honest. Like being apprehensive about walking to a restaurant in Harlem last night. I don't think I have any "superiority" type racism, but I apparently have a healthy dose of "I belong south of Central Park, not up here" type racism, which makes me a little sick. But the more I'm exposed to the reality of the situation, the less I feel that.

Becoming more comfortable in a more accurate version of the world than the one I was raised to believe in, is probably one of my favorite things about living in general.

I don't sweat it. I was programmed from birth. At some point I made a conscious decision - fuck being programmed. My racism is nowhere near as bad as my sectarianism. No shit. If you're paying attention, you'll actually see my hackles go up the very millisecond I find out someone is catholic. I can make them go down, tho. Same as any racist bullshit that bubbles up. Same as any sexist or whatever the fuck-ist prejudice. I get the urge to prove I'm not racist when I meet a person from a different race, or prove I'm not homophobic when I meet someone gay. It's funny shit my brain does. I just ignore the impulse. Figure the best way to prove anything is stfu and walk the walk.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Not sure if strictly related, but as a kid I grew up in a rather small, very white village. And I was taught these, or very similar things. Most importantly that discrimination is bad. When I moved to larger places, the first couple of times seeing or meeting a coloured person, I felt this anxiety: SHIT BE CAREFUL I MUST NOT DISCRIMINATE THEM. Fortunately it got less with more exposure, to the point I'm pretty sure that thought it hardly even there (even though that test from the other thread showed there's still a "slight" effect. though I think there's more factors to that than what I was taught about equality when young).

Yeah, I think the tension generated by the message really undermines people's ability to relate to people who look different. The undertones of WE DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DIFFERENCES in particular is very counterproductive.

Well, it's a progression thing.

1.  Enslavement.
2.  Emancipation.
3.  Jim Crow.
4.  Figuring out that Jim Crow is bad, but what about my property values?
5.  Realizing that all people are humans.  This is when people make well-intentioned comments like "I don't see color" that are offensive as hell but not deliberately so.

THEN

6.  Realizing that all people are humans, BUT that differences DO exist, and that those differences are not only okay, but good for society in general.  Also realizing that color - for example - DOES still make a hell of a lot of difference for the people who HAVE to "see" it, because they ARE it, and because there are still very real social and career impediments to people because of it. 

THEN

7.  Focusing on those remaining impediments, rather than congratulating themselves on how progressive they are toward...you know...Those People.

Right now, most of America is stuck somewhere between 5 & 6, with about 20% somewhere between 3 & 4.  I don't know many people at 6, and I don't know ANYONE at 7, and this includes myself, though I'm working on that.

You probably know some people of color who are at 7, though.

You.

IRL?  Not really.  They are under the same damn conditioning that I am under, to be perfectly honest.

[LMNO]

P3nt speaks uncomfortable truth, and I like it.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I think I'm at 6 and working on 7.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Seriously, for society today, 6 and working toward 7 is pretty fucking great. It's swimming upstream and trying to inseminate as many eggs as you can.