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Anybody know something about OBE / Astral yadda yadda?

Started by Ixxie, August 26, 2013, 06:57:02 PM

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Ixxie

August 26, 2013, 06:57:02 PM
"In Shadow - we find the Light - Safely Sealed in Darkest Night, so make Sure Ya'll Keep it Tight. Wizards Only - Fools!"

The Good Reverend Roger

#1
August 26, 2013, 07:00:09 PM
Off the subject and just out of curiosity, how much of this brain damage are you gonna spew?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Suu

#2
August 26, 2013, 07:02:25 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 26, 2013, 07:00:09 PM
Off the subject and just out of curiosity, how much of this brain damage are you gonna spew?

This.

Like I said on your first thread: Pool's on the roof.
Sovereign Episkopos-Princess Kaousuu; Esq., Battle Nun, Bene Gesserit.
Our Lady of Perpetual Confusion; 1st Church of Discordia

"Add a dab of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange, and pretend you're laughing at it."

The Good Reverend Roger

#3
August 26, 2013, 07:03:41 PM
Quote from: Suu on August 26, 2013, 07:02:25 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 26, 2013, 07:00:09 PM
Off the subject and just out of curiosity, how much of this brain damage are you gonna spew?

This.

Like I said on your first thread: Pool's on the roof.

What she means is that the psychobabble goes in Principia Discussion, the top forum on the list.

That's not mandatory or anything.  You can post it anywhere you like.  It's just that people like Suu and I (and some others) twitch when we see it, and we get very rude.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#4
August 26, 2013, 07:06:45 PM
It's mostly because we're bad people.  That's why we have to stay in Apple Talk and Aneristic Illusions.  Otherwise ECH (the board owner) gets very cross and raises his eyebrow at us. 

Sometimes, he's even sarcastic. :shudder:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cramulus

#5
August 26, 2013, 07:13:14 PM
Actually, I thought that was really interesting research and would love to try out the technique they outline.

I found it surprising that visual information about your heart rate can inform your body awareness.

The Good Reverend Roger

#6
August 26, 2013, 07:16:53 PM
Only out of body experience I ever had was a side effect from Klonopin.  I was driving along, and then I wasn't driving along, I was in the back seat watching myself drive along.  It made driving very interesting, like trying to control the Jeep while wearing boxing gloves and clown shoes.

Needless to say, I stopped taking Klonopin.  OBEs are very overrated.  I'm still trying to figure out shit regarding IN body experiences.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cramulus

#7
August 26, 2013, 07:28:08 PM
The video at the bottom of the article shows the methodology. It looks like the disassociation relies on you seeing the tiny sway and movements of your body in an external location. They also took off the participant's shirt, probably so he really identifies with the image he sees.

So what if you had a motion capture device, like a Kinect, and used this technique... but showed the person an image of a digital avatar instead of their real self. If the motion capture picked up all those little unconscious movements, maybe the avatar would fool the person too.



This reminds me of Jaron Lanier's discussion about VR avatars and body disassociation. Here's an interesting anecdote he tells about putting people in a VR environment when a bug happens and your avatars no longer match a real body's proportions.

Suu

#8
August 26, 2013, 07:33:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 26, 2013, 07:06:45 PM
It's mostly because we're bad people.  That's why we have to stay in Apple Talk and Aneristic Illusions.  Otherwise ECH (the board owner) gets very cross and raises his eyebrow at us. 

Sometimes, he's even sarcastic. :shudder:

That bastard.

No really dude, I think you'll find what you're looking for in Principia Discussion, not Apple Talk.
Sovereign Episkopos-Princess Kaousuu; Esq., Battle Nun, Bene Gesserit.
Our Lady of Perpetual Confusion; 1st Church of Discordia

"Add a dab of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange, and pretend you're laughing at it."

The Good Reverend Roger

#9
August 26, 2013, 07:34:32 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 26, 2013, 07:28:08 PM
The video at the bottom of the article shows the methodology. It looks like the disassociation relies on you seeing the tiny sway and movements of your body in an external location. They also took off the participant's shirt, probably so he really identifies with the image he sees.

See, my problem isn't the HOW.  We know disassociation is possible.  My question is WHY?  What's the point of inducing a condition in yourself like that?  I've had it once, and it was unpleasant as hell.  There wasn't any "astral" to it, just an intense desire to be back where I belonged (ie, the driver's seat). 

I just fail to see the usefulness of making your mind malfunction to no gain.  Nothing you see during that state is real.  It's just that you have chemically (or optically, or whatever) caused your brain to misinterpret data it receives from your nervous system.

It's sort of like saying, "I can now, with modern automobiles, cause the brakes and the steering input to become confused with one another, and I think I can create an out-of-automobile experience if I go fast enough".

Basically, I see it as a waste of time and effort, no different than watching people suck up Harmine so they can SEE TEH UNIVERSE.  You can already see the fucking thing, it's RIGHT THERE.  Intentionally distorting your view doesn't help.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cramulus

#10
August 26, 2013, 07:36:29 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 26, 2013, 07:34:32 PMSee, my problem isn't the HOW.  We know disassociation is possible.  My question is WHY?

QuoteAccording to the team, this is the first study that clearly shows how visual signals containing information about the body's internal organs (in this case, the heartbeat) can change their perception of themselves. "It confirms that the brain is able to integrate visual information with cardiac information," says Aspell. "It seems that the brain is very sensitive to patterns in the world which may relate to self – when the flashing was synchronous with the heartbeat this caused changes to subjects' self-perception."

The research could help people with distorted views of themselves to connect with their actual physical appearance. "Patients with anorexia seem to identify with a body which is larger than their physical body," Aspell tells us. "We could use this manipulation to help patients with anorexia to identify with their actual physical self."

Aspell is currently studying "yo-yo" dieters and says she plans to continue investigating "how the internal body shapes who we are." The Swiss National Science Foundation and the Fondation Bertarelli supported the study which is slated for publication in the APS journal Psychological Science.

The Good Reverend Roger

#11
August 26, 2013, 07:39:49 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 26, 2013, 07:36:29 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 26, 2013, 07:34:32 PMSee, my problem isn't the HOW.  We know disassociation is possible.  My question is WHY?

QuoteAccording to the team, this is the first study that clearly shows how visual signals containing information about the body's internal organs (in this case, the heartbeat) can change their perception of themselves. "It confirms that the brain is able to integrate visual information with cardiac information," says Aspell. "It seems that the brain is very sensitive to patterns in the world which may relate to self – when the flashing was synchronous with the heartbeat this caused changes to subjects' self-perception."

The research could help people with distorted views of themselves to connect with their actual physical appearance. "Patients with anorexia seem to identify with a body which is larger than their physical body," Aspell tells us. "We could use this manipulation to help patients with anorexia to identify with their actual physical self."

Aspell is currently studying "yo-yo" dieters and says she plans to continue investigating "how the internal body shapes who we are." The Swiss National Science Foundation and the Fondation Bertarelli supported the study which is slated for publication in the APS journal Psychological Science.

I take that with a bit of a grain of salt, but okay, let's assume that's feasible, that you can use OBE to alter your view of yourself.  In the case of anorexia, it's not going to help, because the problem isn't the person's self-image.  But let's stipulate that it WILL, done properly, help people with distorted body images.  And then let's look at the idea of a bunch of people trying this shit on their own...

Wait.

I am 169% behind this, and I think everyone should try it.  With a head full of Harmine, preferably.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#12
August 26, 2013, 07:43:46 PM
Mostly because I want to see America completely convinced that it fell through a fun house mirror.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cramulus

#13
August 26, 2013, 07:48:36 PM
Personally, I think research about how the brain constructs a sense of self is fascinating and completely worthwhile.

I am a bit confused about why this thread got shit on at the top. Is it the word astral in the subject? This article seems like the kind of thing PD is generally interested in.

The Good Reverend Roger

#14
August 26, 2013, 07:53:12 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 26, 2013, 07:48:36 PM
Personally, I think research about how the brain constructs a sense of self is fascinating and completely worthwhile.

Oh, I agree.

QuoteI am a bit confused about why this thread got shit on at the top. Is it the word astral in the subject? This article seems like the kind of thing PD is generally interested in.

Honestly?  For three reasons:

1.  It was a link with no commentary.  No question, even, as implied by the title.  It was the ancient example of a trolling thread.  No input, loads of replies.  I am just trying to help out.

2. Normally, this sort of thing goes over well in Techmology and Scientism.  There's actually a pretty good thread there right now about alpha waves that I've been following.

3.  :apple:

SPECIAL BONUS REASON #4:  Because Ixxie does nothing BUT dribble hippie sauce.  That's HIS Discordia.  MY Discordia is to barf all over his Discordia.  Sorry if that offends the Discordia Police.  Bad Roger, no cactus.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.
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