Trigger warning: Drugs

[Junkenstein]

Saying "the graph is not well made" doesn't make any sense. They are data points. On a graph. It's not an attractive graph, but you are arguing with the data points, not the artistic merit, I assume.

Yeah, I am arguing with the way the data for physical harm is being chosen.  It's also missing some really common drugs, meth for one, marijuana for another.

Are we talking about this one or another graph here? This marks both.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Saying "the graph is not well made" doesn't make any sense. They are data points. On a graph. It's not an attractive graph, but you are arguing with the data points, not the artistic merit, I assume.

Yeah, I am arguing with the way the data for physical harm is being chosen.  It's also missing some really common drugs, meth for one, marijuana for another.

So like I said earlier, you don't believe that secondary harm should be considered. OK. I disagree. Can read the study and tell me exactly why the harm assessment is flawed? Feel free to quote sections directly from it.

Also, you make me sad. Another name for marijuana is "Cannabis" and meth is grouped with "Amphetamine".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Pergamos, are you trolling?

[Pergamos]

Saying "the graph is not well made" doesn't make any sense. They are data points. On a graph. It's not an attractive graph, but you are arguing with the data points, not the artistic merit, I assume.

Yeah, I am arguing with the way the data for physical harm is being chosen.  It's also missing some really common drugs, meth for one, marijuana for another.

Are we talking about this one or another graph here? This marks both.

oops, missed Cannabis cause I was looking for Marijuana,  I still don't see Methamphetemine on there.

[Pergamos]

If Amphetemine is meant to cover Methamphetemine (which is a different substance) then I think it is badly misclassified as far as physical harm goes.  Meth addiction destroys people just as badly as Heroin addiction does, although it is easier to quit and the direct physical harm from the drug is immense.  It eats people's bones and teeth.

[Junkenstein]

Please remember that physical harm includes deaths/overdoses/general related health issues.

There may be more physical harm with one substance, psychological with another. Chance of death under/due to the influence is also important here. Teeth aren't as important as your heart or liver.

[Pergamos]

Please remember that physical harm includes deaths/overdoses/general related health issues.

There may be more physical harm with one substance, psychological with another. Chance of death under/due to the influence is also important here. Teeth aren't as important as your heart or liver.

Well, Meth destroys your liver and gives people heart attacks too, and because it increases their energy level, rather than causing them to nod off like opiates it makes actions that lead to death or physical harm more likely.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

If Amphetemine is meant to cover Methamphetemine (which is a different substance) then I think it is badly misclassified as far as physical harm goes.  Meth addiction destroys people just as badly as Heroin addiction does, although it is easier to quit and the direct physical harm from the drug is immense.  It eats people's bones and teeth.

They are closely related and I suspect that for the purpose of this research it made sense to group all amphetamines together. Meth is going to be the largest proportion in that group, so it will be weighted appropriately.

Do you have ANY citations? The specific claim I am asking for citations on is "methamphetamine eats people's bones and teeth". It is known to cause dry mouth which has a very detrimental effect on gum health, and long term use can, like many other drugs, cause bone density loss, but that's not exactly the same thing as "eats people's bones and teeth", whatever that means.

[Junkenstein]

Please remember that physical harm includes deaths/overdoses/general related health issues.

There may be more physical harm with one substance, psychological with another. Chance of death under/due to the influence is also important here. Teeth aren't as important as your heart or liver.

Well, Meth destroys your liver and gives people heart attacks too, and because it increases their energy level, rather than causing them to nod off like opiates it makes actions that lead to death or physical harm more likely.

Have you read the background on this graph? I'm crashing so I'll get my next drug thread fix later. You may want to note "Street Methadone" in the meantime. I think this may be what you should be looking at in the meantime, it sounds like what you're describing and in that case I'd still suggest the graph as being largely accurate.

Nigel, I'm guessing the teeth damage would be gurning jaw motions grinding them down causing related issues. No idea about the missing bones.

[Pergamos]

Please remember that physical harm includes deaths/overdoses/general related health issues.

There may be more physical harm with one substance, psychological with another. Chance of death under/due to the influence is also important here. Teeth aren't as important as your heart or liver.

Well, Meth destroys your liver and gives people heart attacks too, and because it increases their energy level, rather than causing them to nod off like opiates it makes actions that lead to death or physical harm more likely.

Have you read the background on this graph? I'm crashing so I'll get my next drug thread fix later. You may want to note "Street Methadone" in the meantime. I think this may be what you should be looking at in the meantime, it sounds like what you're describing and in that case I'd still suggest the graph as being largely accurate.

Nigel, I'm guessing the teeth damage would be gurning jaw motions grinding them down causing related issues. No idea about the missing bones.

Methadone is an opiate, it's not related to methamphetemine at all.

[Pergamos]

Here's a source that mentions calcium depletion.

http://www.neurosoup.com/methamphetamine/

I've seen it mentioned several other places as well, but those have mostly been government anti-drug sites, which I tend to be a bit suspicious of.

[Salty]

Something like:

I DON'T SEE HOW WE CAN ALL CONTRIBUTE TO OUR COLLECTIVE DEMISE EVERY SINGLE DAY. WHEN YOU DRIVE A CAR YOU SHOW YOUR CHILDREN IT'S OKAY TO INJECT DEATH GAS INTO THE ATMOSPHERE THEIR CHILDREN WILL HAVE TO CLEAN UP/BE MURDERED BY.

You know, that sort of thing.

Those sort of people do exist. (QG was raised in a town full of hippies)

I know, I'm one of them. But i have the good decency to not make a career of being an asshole.

Shame. You could have gone Pro.

Why, you flatter me.

[AFK]

A couple of notes:

Amphetamine is a precursor for meth, so it isn't the same thing.

"meth mouth" is caused by other symptoms of meth use including dry mouth, grinding of teeth, and exacerbated by poor dental hygiene common amongst meth addicts.

[AFK]

Two times a month is regularly?  And that is average.  The last time i drank any alcohol was at a wedding this past July.


That aside,


I don't believe in this idea that just because one substance was made legal a bunch of decades ago, that we must legalize everything else that some categorize as "less harmful".


It is still harmful, thus, in my opinion, it is warranted to keep it as an illicit substance.

The bold- Why?

Because of what I said in the following sentence.

You seem to agree with that graph.

So, looking at that graph, is marijuana harmless?  Yes or No?

[Pergamos]

A couple of notes:

Amphetamine is a precursor for meth, so it isn't the same thing.

"meth mouth" is caused by other symptoms of meth use including dry mouth, grinding of teeth, and exacerbated by poor dental hygiene common amongst meth addicts.

The first part was why I didn't think Meth was on the graph at all.