Thread is now about Holist.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Roger, for a likeable fellow, you can be a nasty piece of work, you know.

I can see the pattern now, and this is how it goes:

I attempt to articulate a line of thought that is tentative, hard to express and complex. At my first attempt, you decide for good what my view is, and if it doesn't obviously agree with your views, you go to work: you simplify and distort it until it fits one of your pet hates quite well, and start shitting on it. Copiously. With great diligence.

This then helps others to simplify, distort and misunderstand in like fashion. I wouldn't call it mind lazors at all: it's just being obnoxious, loud and extremely fucking entitled.

Nowhere in this fucking thread did I propose to tell anyone what is art and what is not. Neither did I say that inauthentic music isn't music. Neither did I say that getting paid for it makes it phoney. I attempted to outline a use for the concept of authenticity, which you had discarded with flair, in a stylish but shallow manner. And I fucking began my first utterance (after simple praise, which is, of course, alright with you) with the words "For me, subjectively".

I realise that you enjoy doing this a great deal (it is one of, if not the major source of enjoyment in your life), but your addiction to the feeling of superiority (which some people on this board share with you to various degrees - it is unclear whether they caught/learnt it from you or developed it independently) is robbing this board, this entire community of people, of open-ended discussions actually leading to anything fundamentally new, rather than just processing external events until they confirm the received wisdom. Largely yours. Monotonously. Boringly.

I put it to you that this behaviour may have quite a lot to do with both the recent ingressions of ennui you have suffered ('What Next?') and the deteriorating quality of discussion (mundane chit-chat, swearing for laughs, funny GIFs and tubes) you have also lamented not so long ago.

Think about it or fly off the handle straight away like you do so well, I don't give a flying fuck.

Or fucking kill me.

I'm off for the day, and it's almost 8 here. Will be back in about 22 hours, I guess.

You noticed that too eh?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Roger, for a likeable fellow, you can be a nasty piece of work, you know.

I can see the pattern now, and this is how it goes:

I attempt to articulate a line of thought that is tentative, hard to express and complex. At my first attempt, you decide for good what my view is, and if it doesn't obviously agree with your views, you go to work: you simplify and distort it until it fits one of your pet hates quite well, and start shitting on it. Copiously. With great diligence.

This then helps others to simplify, distort and misunderstand in like fashion. I wouldn't call it mind lazors at all: it's just being obnoxious, loud and extremely fucking entitled.

Nowhere in this fucking thread did I propose to tell anyone what is art and what is not. Neither did I say that inauthentic music isn't music. Neither did I say that getting paid for it makes it phoney. I attempted to outline a use for the concept of authenticity, which you had discarded with flair, in a stylish but shallow manner. And I fucking began my first utterance (after simple praise, which is, of course, alright with you) with the words "For me, subjectively".

I realise that you enjoy doing this a great deal (it is one of, if not the major source of enjoyment in your life), but your addiction to the feeling of superiority (which some people on this board share with you to various degrees - it is unclear whether they caught/learnt it from you or developed it independently) is robbing this board, this entire community of people, of open-ended discussions actually leading to anything fundamentally new, rather than just processing external events until they confirm the received wisdom. Largely yours. Monotonously. Boringly.

I put it to you that this behaviour may have quite a lot to do with both the recent ingressions of ennui you have suffered ('What Next?') and the deteriorating quality of discussion (mundane chit-chat, swearing for laughs, funny GIFs and tubes) you have also lamented not so long ago.

Think about it or fly off the handle straight away like you do so well, I don't give a flying fuck.

Or fucking kill me.

I'm off for the day, and it's almost 8 here. Will be back in about 22 hours, I guess.

So essentially, you have no cogent counterpoint? Because I have seen people nail Roger with a cogent counterpoint.

Can't you see that he's trying to save you all from my insidious evil?

[Lord Cataplanga]

If you are making a subjective-value judgement, why use a word like "authentic". Aunthentic has a very clear definition, and it's definitely an objective-value judgement.

His complaint about being willfully misinterpreted merits consideration, I think, because this forum isn't well-known for interpreting mis-communicated thoughts in a charitable way.

This isn't Roger's problem, though. Everybody does that, and that's why it's important to express ourselves clearly, and inmediately change our approach when a particular word or phrase isn't working.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Lord Cataplanga, you do make an excellent point; the burden of communication is on the sender, and if your method isn't working, change the method.

But that's not really the point, here.  Holist fooled me, I guess.  But he couldn't hold the ancient, rancid butthurt in any longer.

Disappointing, really.  I mean in myself.  It's not like this is the first time he's done this.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Flouncing off, crying "it's not the way I communicate, it's all of you people".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I seem to recall a couple of other people have had that problem, as well, but learned to modify their methods of communication for greater effectiveness. Ie. things like "I guess authenticity isn't the right word, let me think about this and restate it".

Actually, people here do it all the time, it's one of the things I like about this board. It's a rare environment where when people levy countering viewpoints that are solid and well-thought-out, others are likely  to actually think about them, take them under consideration, acknowledge their validity, and possibly even change their minds.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Interesting point: When people do that, it tends not to be remembered, because it's a non-event to just reconsider and concede a point or reformulate their perspective. It turns out that people don't actually take away your cool points for doing so, they just, y'know, respect you as a reasonable person.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Flouncing off, crying "it's not the way I communicate, it's all of you people".

I just feel stupid because this is, what, the third time I've given him an honest chance?

But it always comes back to the same fucking thing.  I'm a Goddamn idiot for thinking anything else was even fucking possible.

[Cainad (dec.)]

I seem to recall a couple of other people have had that problem, as well, but learned to modify their methods of communication for greater effectiveness. Ie. things like "I guess authenticity isn't the right word, let me think about this and restate it".

Actually, people here do it all the time, it's one of the things I like about this board. It's a rare environment where when people levy countering viewpoints that are solid and well-thought-out, others are likely  to actually think about them, take them under consideration, acknowledge their validity, and possibly even change their minds.

Bolded for exactly what my first two years on PD were all about.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Redacted.

[LMNO]

Well put. Can't wait to hear your riff on the Beach Boys.

And it WAS a shame what happened to Cindi. Turns out she was a better friend of The Gays than Madonna, as well.

I know, right?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Flouncing off, crying "it's not the way I communicate, it's all of you people".

I just feel stupid because this is, what, the third time I've given him an honest chance?

But it always comes back to the same fucking thing.  I'm a Goddamn idiot for thinking anything else was even fucking possible.

Some people simply cannot separate their egos from their arguments.

[AFK]

 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Cyndi Lauper went on to make ten more albums (her second album, "True Colors", was actually more popular than the one with "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun) and write music for Hollywood and Broadway, she's fabulously successful, just not in top-40 pop. Your point still works using her as an example of someone who didn't care about using shock and faded from the tabloid pages, but I thought you'd want to know that her career didn't exactly fizzle.

[AFK]

Also, Madonna has a pretty good voice.  Don't get me wrong, Cindi Lauper is amazing as well, but vocally, I think they were pretty evenly matched.