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I just don't understand any kind of absolute egalitarianism philosophy. Whether it's branded as anarcho-capitalism or straight anarchism or sockfucking libertarianism, it always misses the same point.

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Tobacco/Weed split thread.

Started by AFK, October 12, 2013, 12:28:01 AM

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AFK

Okay, so if you want to compare to legal substances:  Weed is more toxic than tobacco.

Higher tar content
Higher carbon monoxide content
More carcinogens

This is why the comparison to other legal substances is irrelevant. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Salty

Quote from: Not Your Average Mean on October 12, 2013, 12:32:18 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 12, 2013, 12:10:37 AM
Quote from: Not Your Average Mean on October 12, 2013, 12:09:38 AM
Speaking from first hand knowledge, and having direct conversations with them, they aren't worried about competition and market share.  They are pissed about the "weed is safer than alcohol"'meme. 


Because it effects their advertizing (and thus market share), or because they are true believers in their product?

It's more, in their eyes, about MPP talking smack about their products.  Which certainly could impact sales, but they said that legalization hasn't impacted them at all from a strict competition point of view.

They believe it is an irrelevant comparison.  I agree with them, but for different reasons.

Not because their product is safe, and they know where I stand on that. But because it distracts and obscures the real, documented dangers of marijuana, on its own merits.

Could you please stop  posting, ITT?
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

Salty

I'm not trying to fight, argue, debate, or taunt. Just, please, RWHN, please stop posting in this thread.
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

If he continues to post statements presented as fact with no supporting academic studies, I will ask for a split.

The relative dangers of marijuana are in fact directly relevant to the topic of the thread, so if he has data from a credible source such as a peer-reviewed medical or science journal, I'd be interested in seeing it.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


AFK

From the above website:

Myth: Marijuana is not as bad for you as tobacco.
Fact: Marijuana is linked to respiratory problems, just like tobacco.
While the co-occurrence of marijuana and tobacco smoking is high and makes differentiating between their individual negative effects difficult, research has shown that smoking ONE marijuana joint has the same impact on an individual's large lung airways as smoking 16 tobacco cigarettes.
Additionally, marijuana smoke contains between 50-70% more cancer-causing chemicals than the levels found in tobacco smoke.  Smoking marijuana has been clearly linked to respiratory problems.

Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

AFK

Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

AFK

Here are the studies linked to the facts about impacts to resporatory system.

Tashkin, D.P. (2005). Smoked marijuana as a cause of lung injury. Monaldi Archives for Chest Disease, 63(2), 93-100.
Tashkin, D.P., Calvarese, B.M., Simmons, M.S., & Shapiro, B.J. (1980). Respiratory status of seventy-four habitual marijuana smokers.  Chest, 78(5), 699-706.
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Not Your Average Mean on October 12, 2013, 01:17:17 AM
Did you not see the citations?

You cannot provide primary sources citing relative risk? This thread is about relative risk, not about whether there is any risk. Please stay on topic.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


AFK

Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Nephew Twiddleton

There is apparently no correlation between marijuana use and increased cancer risk, despite marijuana containing carcinogens.

http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/2/1/21
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

AFK

Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

AFK

Here is another primary source that talks about the relative risks of marijuana compared to tobacco:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1525-1497.2004.40081.x/full

Objective: Although a number of studies have examined the respiratory impact of marijuana smoking, such studies have generally used convenience samples of marijuana and tobacco users. The current study examined respiratory effects of marijuana and tobacco use in a nationally representative sample while controlling for age, gender, and current asthma.

Design: Analysis of the nationally representative third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES III).

Setting: U.S. households.

Participants: A total of 6,728 adults age 20 to 59 who completed the drug, tobacco, and health sections of the NHANES III questionnaire in 1988 and 1994. Current marijuana use was defined as self-reported 100+ lifetime use and at least 1 day of use in the past month.

Measurements and Main Results: Self-reported respiratory symptoms included chronic bronchitis, frequent phlegm, shortness of breath, frequent wheezing, chest sounds without a cold, and pneumonia. A medical exam also provided an overall chest finding and a measure of reduced pulmonary functioning. Marijuana use was associated with respiratory symptoms of chronic bronchitis (P=.02), coughing on most days (P=.001), phlegm production (P=.0005), wheezing (P<.0001), and chest sounds without a cold (P=.02).

Conclusion: The impact of marijuana smoking on respiratory health has some significant similarities to that of tobacco smoking. Efforts to prevent and reduce marijuana use, such as advising patients to quit and providing referrals for support and assistance, may have substantial public health benefits associated with decreased respiratory health problems.
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Nephew Twiddleton

Quote from: Not Your Average Mean on October 12, 2013, 01:28:38 AM
Here is another primary source that talks about the relative risks of marijuana compared to tobacco:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1525-1497.2004.40081.x/full

Objective: Although a number of studies have examined the respiratory impact of marijuana smoking, such studies have generally used convenience samples of marijuana and tobacco users. The current study examined respiratory effects of marijuana and tobacco use in a nationally representative sample while controlling for age, gender, and current asthma.

Design: Analysis of the nationally representative third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES III).

Setting: U.S. households.

Participants: A total of 6,728 adults age 20 to 59 who completed the drug, tobacco, and health sections of the NHANES III questionnaire in 1988 and 1994. Current marijuana use was defined as self-reported 100+ lifetime use and at least 1 day of use in the past month.

Measurements and Main Results: Self-reported respiratory symptoms included chronic bronchitis, frequent phlegm, shortness of breath, frequent wheezing, chest sounds without a cold, and pneumonia. A medical exam also provided an overall chest finding and a measure of reduced pulmonary functioning. Marijuana use was associated with respiratory symptoms of chronic bronchitis (P=.02), coughing on most days (P=.001), phlegm production (P=.0005), wheezing (P<.0001), and chest sounds without a cold (P=.02).

Conclusion: The impact of marijuana smoking on respiratory health has some significant similarities to that of tobacco smoking. Efforts to prevent and reduce marijuana use, such as advising patients to quit and providing referrals for support and assistance, may have substantial public health benefits associated with decreased respiratory health problems.

QuoteThe total sample consisted of 6,728 individuals: 4,789 nonsmokers, 1,525 tobacco-only smokers, and 414 marijuana smokers (320 also smoked tobacco).

So, how is concurrent use of tobacco controlled for if such a high percentage of marijuana users in this sample are also tobacco users?
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Not Your Average Mean on October 12, 2013, 01:20:27 AM
Yes, risk relative to tobacco.

Relative to tobacco, the risks associated with smoking marijuana is very low. It might potentially be higher if marijuana was smoked in the same quantities as tobacco, but it isn't. Smoking marijuana regularly puts users at a higher risk for lung cancer than not smoking, but a much lower risk than smoking tobacco.

http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v21/n48/abs/1205807a.html

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1018427320658

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19004418



"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Don Coyote on October 12, 2013, 01:31:27 AM
I thought this was about the risks of pot relative to alcohol. More specifically to the relative risks of driving while impaired, or not any potential correlations between potheads being less likely to actually drive than drunks.

It was, as a matter of fact. I am requesting a thread split; can a mod please split out all of the posts pertaining to the risk of smoking marijuana relative to the risk of smoking tobacco?
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."