It's that time of year again...

[East Coast Hustle]

Unfortunately, having musical talent doesn't necessarily translate into writing songs that aren't completely fucking awful.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

What I want to know is what is the CRITERIA for getting into the hall of fame?

A bunch of us have been trying to get Doug Sahm in forever, and their excuse is that "He blended genres of music, but he didn't INVENT any."

So does that mean KISS did? Fucking arena rock predates those guys.

Or Nirvana? Garage rock blended with whiney lyrics isn't blending, it's "innovating"?

Isn't rock & roll ITSELF a blend?

I call bullshit.

[AFK]

Bands are nominated, are put on ballots, and then people vote.


That's the critera.


Nirvana created a seismic shift in the music scene that paved the way for tons of alternative bands.  Fuck, they even allowed greater exposure for their influences.  Sonic Youth, Meat Puppets, Vaselines, etc., etc.,

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

So stuff like inviting the Pupps to be on Unplugged or covering a Vaselines song is "creating a seismic shift" and qualifies them for the hall of fame? 

"Hey guys, we're getting some totally undeserved media attention, more than we want - you want some?"

[East Coast Hustle]

Yeah, the idea that Nirvana was some sort of sea change in the music scene is completely laughable. Especially given that nobody's talking about the other bands that were their contemporaries and without whom nobody would ever have heard of Nirvana. By RWHN's criteria, Green River and Skin Yard deserve all of the credit he's giving to Nirvana. Not to mention Mother Love Bone, Mudhoney, etc.

The only significant difference, as far as I can tell, is that none of those other bands got an album produced by Butch Vig. Who also produced several of the bands that RWHN is giving Nirvana credit for exposing and/or influencing. So maybe Butch Vig should be inducted in Nirvana's place?

Anyway, the "people" who "vote" on the RRHOF inductees are just a bunch of lackeys. It's not like there's an actual popular vote or anything remotely resembling that. Bands are voted in the same way Nigerian presidents are "voted in".

[East Coast Hustle]

(cue RWHN showing up to tell me what I do and don't actually know about a music scene that I was physically present for and socially involved in)

[AFK]

   Talk about delusions of grandeur.

What, did Kim Thayil have you hold his beer once while he hit the head?

[Cain]

-

[AFK]

Of course I recognize that I'm (foolishly) expecting people who fawn over and worship at the feet of Ms. Wrecking Ball to have at least a modicum of musical cultural awareness. 


i also sense some bitterness from punk purists, coloring opinions.

[East Coast Hustle]

(cue RWHN showing up to tell me what I do and don't actually know about a music scene that I was physically present for and socially involved in)

I knew I called it when I called it, I just didn't know he'd be waking up at the crack of dawn and doing it quite so urgently and immediately.

RWHN, do you have things set so that your phone sends you a loud alert any time somebody posts to a thread you're following? Or are you just in the habit of waking up at 5am to jump on PD?

[East Coast Hustle]

Also, dipshit, by "socially involved in" I don't mean I was rubbing elbows with rock stars, I mean I was going to shows and learning things about these guys that were making this neat noise in my town. Which is probably what any normal person would have thought I meant. Once again your assumptions speak volumes about your character.

[LMNO]

The only significant difference, as far as I can tell, is that none of those other bands got an album produced by Butch Vig. Who also produced several of the bands that RWHN is giving Nirvana credit for exposing and/or influencing. So maybe Butch Vig should be inducted in Nirvana's place?

I think I had a post about this in one of the unlimited threads.  Pretty sure it got buried, fast.  I'll see if I can find it.

[LMNO]

Well, that was easy enough.

Ok, I have to weigh in here... The real driving force behind the impact of Nevermind was... Butch Vig.

He grabbed a Pixies wanna-be band, and reworked the sound until it became commercially acceptable.  He double-tracked the vocals, used click tracks for the drums, tightened up arrangements, dozens of guitar overdubs, and then calling in Andy Wallace to run all the tracks through as many effects as they could to smooth the rough edges.

Yeah, I said that Nevermind had no rough edges.  Listen to Jesus Lizard's Liar or Goat released around the same time, and you'll know what I'm talking about.  Kurt even said later that Nevermind "Looking back on the production of Nevermind, I'm embarrassed by it now. It's closer to a Mötley Crüe record than it is a punk rock record."

If Nirvana hadn't brought in Butch, Nevermind would have sounded like Bleach 2.  And gone nowhere.  Vig, who later went on to produce Smashing Pumpkins, L7, Sonic Youth (Dirty, if you couldn't guess), Soul Asylum, AFI, Jimmy Eat World, Green Day, and Foo Fighters, and of course, Garbage, found a key piece of the puzzle:  If you want to make a band mainstream, make them sound mainstream.  He showed you could take literally any band and give them commercial appeal if you took away the sharp, buzzy, uncomfortable noises, and made them smooth and palatable.

Again, if anyone wants to argue that Nevermind isn't a soothing album, I can give examples of plenty of albums released in 1991-92 that tear the pants off of that record and grinds it a new asshole.

[AFK]

None of those other Vig-produced bands blew up as big or created as much word-of-mouth, street level buzz across a broad swath of youth culture as Nirvana did.

Why?

Because it was the songs.  Nevermind without Vig would not have been Bleach 2, if you think that then you have only heard the songs on Nevermind and haven't actually paid attention and listened to them. 

The other big difference between Bleach and Nevermind were the hooks.  For Nevermind, Kurt hit his stride writing a song that was raw but also had melody and hooks to reel you in.  Bleach, outside About A Girl, didn't have that.  It was way more Melvins-esque where as Nevermind was more channeling Kurt's Beatles influences.

[hooplala]

Bands are nominated, are put on ballots, and then people vote.


That's the critera.


Nirvana The Pixies created a seismic shift in the music scene that paved the way for tons of alternative bands.  Fuck, they even allowed greater exposure for their influences.  Sonic Youth, Meat Puppets, Vaselines, etc., etc.,