Atheists and White Supremacists

[Demolition Squid]

I try not to get worked up about this stuff because I tend to assume it is a communication issue and not people actually being bigots. That's because I tend to assume that people here are smart enough to see where the issue is and understand it when it is made clear. That's why I spoke up with P3nt and it is why I spoke up here.

I've just been totally fucking ignored this time, though, which is even worse than being argued with. I've got better things to do with my time than speak where nobody is listening.

From what you've been saying lately, that's a frustration I think you can relate to, DOUR.

So I'd really appreciate it if Nigel could step up and understand that - whether she meant 'Atheists as a social group' or not, what she said and continues to say is just 'Atheists'. Which doesn't fucking mean that. And since she's not Holist, I hope she can appreciate why people would have exactly this reaction to what was actually said.

Unless this was all an experiment to see whether people would react differently between 'Atheist' and 'Faithfool', which I really hope it wasn't because... well, really?

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

What I'm saying is, the people who got so lit up in THIS thread saw nothing wrong with the other thread, or didn't want to say anything, which is even WORSE.

Demosquid gets a pass, because he did in fact speak up.

But do you have any idea how much that fucking rankles?  How fucking hate-filling that is?  I didn't think much at the time, because I really honestly believed that people weren't bothered by the subject at all.  I didn't AGREE, but I didn't think it was worth shitting the bed over.

Now EVERYONE'S mad because Nigel said something rotten about a different group.  The RIGHT group.  The locally dominant group.

And, you know, this has happened in fairly recent history.  I do NOT claim to know how Jews feel, or Blacks in the 1970s.  But I think I've caught a whiff of it.

DOUR,
Untermensch.

[/quote]

*shudders*

No, she said something about me. I don't expect you to fight my battles, Roger, and I expect the same in return.

For what it's worth, I think faith is a rather useless trait, and I don't put much stock in it. I consider the term "faithfool" the same as I do "christard"... That is to say childish and demeaning. But again, I didn't know your personal beliefs, and so had no reason to think he was referring specifically to you. Though again, I am aware you are quite capable of defending yourself. You do make a good point about my blindness to concepts which do not immediately effect me, which is a matter u will give considerable thought to, but I hope you can understand why I don't jump to your defence every time someone says something to you that you don't like.

Faith is just a strong trust and belief. Same as atheism (which is a strong trust and belief that there's nothing we can't verify.)

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I try not to get worked up about this stuff because I tend to assume it is a communication issue and not people actually being bigots. That's because I tend to assume that people here are smart enough to see where the issue is and understand it when it is made clear. That's why I spoke up with P3nt and it is why I spoke up here.

I've just been totally fucking ignored this time, though, which is even worse than being argued with. I've got better things to do with my time than speak where nobody is listening.

From what you've been saying lately, that's a frustration I think you can relate to, DOUR.

So I'd really appreciate it if Nigel could step up and understand that - whether she meant 'Atheists as a social group' or not, what she said and continues to say is just 'Atheists'. Which doesn't fucking mean that. And since she's not Holist, I hope she can appreciate why people would have exactly this reaction to what was actually said.

Unless this was all an experiment to see whether people would react differently between 'Atheist' and 'Faithfool', which I really hope it wasn't because... well, really?

I think she said what she said with this exact reaction in mind.  I think your last paragraph hits it right on the head.

And I think I have a bellyfull of hate right now.  It's kind of hard to describe.  I don't even IDENTIFY religiously, despite my beliefs, but I feel like a minstrel show performer just for being on PD.  One of the GOOD ones, you know, trusted around the big house and the wife and chilluns.

Is that a rational response?  I don't know and I don't particularly care.  I do appreciate your response in that thread, though I didn't see it at the time.  I DID call out once I'd seen it that you were being consistent from thread to thread.  But if you must be angry, then hop in the lifeboat.  There's plenty of room, and we're hauling up the floorboards to make the deck even bigger.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

But again, I didn't know your personal beliefs, and so had no reason to think he was referring specifically to you.

What possible difference should that make?

[Faust]

Everyone's at each others throats.

I've seen this before, amongst my friends, my family, and this is why I first stood up and said "Hail Eris"

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Everyone's at each others throats.

I've seen this before, amongst my friends, my family, and this is why I first stood up and said "Hail Eris"

You make an excellent point.

But for the sake of my blood pressure, I am now leaving this thread and this topic and never, ever discussing it again.

[hooplala]

But again, I didn't know your personal beliefs, and so had no reason to think he was referring specifically to you.

What possible difference should that make?

Because I don't go snapping at Pent for every stupid thing he says, and you are specifically ranting about nobody coming to your defence.

[hooplala]

...basically at the heart of it, they're the same thing. Insecure people looking for a group to belong to that makes them feel superior to another group through no doing of their own.

And now you get to feel superior to them! Yay, stupidity is fun.

[Demolition Squid]

I don't know if its rational, either.

You don't always have to be rational about this shit, though. Leaving aside religion and moving on to 'how does this make you feel', human beings are not rational creatures emotionally. If we were, the world would look very different.

I could lay out the differences between the situations, but it isn't important. What is important is that this language is not okay. I think (hope?) that everyone understands that, too.

I'm still annoyed - if that was all that was intended to be communicated by this 'sociololgical experiment' - that it was done in this way rather than attempting to go for a more constructive dialogue. But you know what? Even if I'm pissed off a bit, this is still better than reading whatever fucking drivel RWHN is smearing all over the board at the moment, and there's something to be said for that.

[Aucoq]

Everyone's at each others throats.

I've seen this before, amongst my friends, my family, and this is why I first stood up and said "Hail Eris"

I love the fact that this all started with a picture of a fish smoking a cigarette inside a chicken.  Hail Eris. 

[East Coast Hustle]

I haven't even seen the thread in question (or if I have I totally missed whatever is causing all this dumbfuckery), but no matter what anybody did or didn't say in that thread, THIS thread is still dumbfuckery.

I think everybody needs to put on their big boy pants and chill the fuck out, sons.

[Ben Shapiro]

I'm just curious as to how many people in this thread were offended, and said so, when P3NT called me a "faithfool" about 20 times.

I honestly thought being called a "faithfool" was stupid and childish and non-vulgar like someone calling someone a "sheeple", or a "doody-head".
If being called a "Faithfool" is the same as being called a "faggot" while then fuck him.

[Lord Cataplanga]

DOUR, the reason very few people took issue with pent after he used the f-word was because after the first three or so people did so, it was deemed NOT CONTROVERSIAL. Everyone agreed that word was inappropriate.

At least, that's the reason I didn't say anything. I felt I had nothing to contribute that hadn't been said before, and you were defending yourself just fine, better than I could have in that situation.

I will try to pay more attention to that kind of situation in the future. You already said people tend to just assume you are made of steel and don't bother to take your emotions into account, so I should have known.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

From where I am sitting it looks like the term "Atheist" has been thoroughly hijacked by those who would use it to form a group identity that is reliant on the idea of relative worth.

The only one who used the term that way in this thread has been you, Roger and I, specifically to discuss the kind of atheist that don't post in Discordian forums.

I've seen the rest of the internet and I share your frustration, but do you really have to bring that tribal bullshit to the one sane forum on the internet?

What makes you think I'm talking about people here? I was trying to start a discussion, preferably a lively one, on the phenomenon in general.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Dude, be more specific with your terminology, or SHUT UP.

What do you want? Atheists. People who identify as Atheists. People who revolve a portion of their identity around being part of a group that believes that God doesn't exist.

Atheists. How much more specific do you want me to get? It's an ugly group that's getting uglier, which is why, although at one time I would have called myself an atheist, I won't anymore, because there is now a group identity of "Atheist" that I want nothing to do with.

And every Muslim is an extremist.

Islam is a group of closely related religions. Atheism is...?

A label taken by people who reject belief in a supernatural entity. Which, as I'm pretty sure we've talked about in your other threads, is a statement of belief ("I believe there is nothing" as opposed to the agnostic "I dunno"). As a group, atheists have been subject to forms of discrimination for centuries, and they've only just recently started to get uppity about it. And the uppity ones are a minority of the people who identify as Atheist.

The ones who choose the capital-A label seem to be forming a consensus and group identity, unlike people who simply hold an atheistic viewpoint. Unfortunately, it's a group identity that I find extremely alienating and have little respect for.