Atheists and White Supremacists

[Nephew Twiddleton]

BTW, I feel like everybody is missing a key point in the whole "making fun of us for being spiritually-inclined is just like racism or sexis" thing, which is that nobody chooses to be born black or gay or a woman. That's really beside the point, though, the point being that this thread is 98% pointless butthurt.

I was about to make the same point.  The reason I am not equivalent to a white supremacist is twofold: First, I don't feel superior to anyone who believes in a god, for all I know they might be right.  I don't have evidence against a god... all I have is what I believe in my heart to be true, and in this case I simply don't believe that the existence of god, or any gods, is very likely.  Second, your belief in a god is not inborn, like skin color.  You came to the decision that you believed it, in the exact same manner I came to the decision that I didn't... I don't agree with you, and yes it does seem about the same as Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy to me, I am sincerely sorry if that is insulting to anyone, and I mean that.  It doesn't change the way I feel or think, though, and I don't think it's comparable to a group of people who promote the subjugation and sometimes murder of those they disagree with.

You feel there is no god in your heart but thats a choice? I didnt choose to believe its also something i feel in my heart. So a better analogy is that one of sexuality and choice of potentially toxic or healthy relationships.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

My problems with what Nigel has actually said:

1) Using the term "Atheist" to mean "this specific subset of assholes who identify as atheist." I find it to be just as wrong-headed as complaining about "Muslims" and then clarifying "well, not those nice ones, the guys who blow things up, and really you don't see them putting a stop to it so isn't it kind of their fault, too?"


2) "Atheism is privilege." I illustrated why I do not believe that to be the case based on my personal experience.


If that's braying about an enflamed ass, I have no idea what you nutbags think rational disagreement looks like anymore.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't see why it being a fucking choice makes any fucking difference whatsoever, assuming it IS a choice.  I don't see that for even one Goddamn minute.

I see The Other being created, over something that neither picks anyone's fucking pocket nor breaks their stupid fucking leg.  And it doesn't fucking matter why.

[Golden Applesauce]

Nigel's actual point, about some atheists believing they are superior to theists just because they got the right answer in one of the most useless questions of philosophy is a good one, and it's not like atheists haven't talked about it to death and back already. It shouldn't have been controversial.

It shouldn't have been, but opening the thread with Godwin's Law right in the subject line sure didn't help.

I honestly thought it was satire the first time I clicked the thread. Really surprised when it all of a sudden hit 8-9 pages.

[hooplala]

I don't see why it being a fucking choice makes any fucking difference whatsoever, assuming it IS a choice.  I don't see that for even one Goddamn minute.

I see The Other being created, over something that neither picks anyone's fucking pocket nor breaks their stupid fucking leg.  And it doesn't fucking matter why.

Except for the whole "I could be killed for saying what I believe" in many parts of the planet I am stuck on.

[LMNO]

My problems with what Nigel has actually said:

1) Using the term "Atheist" to mean "this specific subset of assholes who identify as atheist." I find it to be just as wrong-headed as complaining about "Muslims" and then clarifying "well, not those nice ones, the guys who blow things up, and really you don't see them putting a stop to it so isn't it kind of their fault, too?"


2) "Atheism is privilege." I illustrated why I do not believe that to be the case based on my personal experience.


If that's braying about an enflamed ass, I have no idea what you nutbags think rational disagreement looks like anymore.

My post was about my behavior, not yours.

[Lord Cataplanga]

I also think I've never encountered one of these Atheists that Nigel is talking about. If I did I'd give them just as hearty a dose of SHUT UP as any other preacher, but I have to wonder if this isn't the theological equivalent of "Uncle BadTouch is a pedo so Discordianism must condone pedophilia".

Obviously, different people have different experiences. The world is a big place, and it's perfectly possible that Nigel was unlucky and found a disproportionate number of Atheists. It's also possible that we were lucky and found a disproportional number of "normal" atheists.

We can argue about whose experience is more representative, I guess, but that doesn't sound very interesting.
How about we take Nigel's argument in good fate, assume she is telling the truth as she sees it, and talk about a potential failure-mode present in all of us?

I don't see why it being a fucking choice makes any fucking difference whatsoever, assuming it IS a choice.  I don't see that for even one Goddamn minute.

I see The Other being created, over something that neither picks anyone's fucking pocket nor breaks their stupid fucking leg.  And it doesn't fucking matter why.

I agree with this. In fact, unless you are like O'brien from 1984, I don't think you can actually choose to believe something.

Nigel's actual point, about some atheists believing they are superior to theists just because they got the right answer in one of the most useless questions of philosophy is a good one, and it's not like atheists haven't talked about it to death and back already. It shouldn't have been controversial.

It shouldn't have been, but opening the thread with Godwin's Law right in the subject line sure didn't help.

I honestly thought it was satire the first time I clicked the thread. Really surprised when it all of a sudden hit 8-9 pages.

I agree the title was a stupid idea. Especially in this forum, where everyone agrees that communication is mostly the responsibility of the sender and charitable interpretation is taken as a some kind of sign of weakness.

I don't see why it being a fucking choice makes any fucking difference whatsoever, assuming it IS a choice.  I don't see that for even one Goddamn minute.

I see The Other being created, over something that neither picks anyone's fucking pocket nor breaks their stupid fucking leg.  And it doesn't fucking matter why.

Except for the whole "I could be killed for saying what I believe" in many parts of the planet I am stuck on.

Enpugh with the bravery debates already

[The Good Reverend Roger]

This thread still doesn't make much sense, except perhaps as an illustration of the idea that even those among us who are the smartest and most respected thinkers are still capable of laying a giant turd right in the punch bowl and insisting that everyone drink up.

And just because so many of the people responding to the OP are dead wrong doesn't mean the OP isn't ALSO dead wrong. It's dumbfuckery all the way down the rabbit hole ITT.

That's the official rational "I'm the admin and we should really all try to get along a little better" response.

Now for my personal response:

Holy fucking shit, is it REALLY the year 2013 and we're still whining about peoples' idiotic religious beliefs and how they don't like it when people make fun of them for it?

Get the fuck over yourselves, retards. If you're dumb enough to believe in a deity then nobody should have any sympathy or concern for your backward little fee-fees. And if you're arrogant enough or insecure enough or just plain smug enough to think that anyone gives two shits about the fact that you've figured out that the imaginary sky creatures are, in fact, imaginary then you should go shave your neckbeard and throw your fucksock in the laundry hamper and maybe spend a little time thinking about the fact that people are different and which of those differences are important and which of them maybe aren't as big a deal as you think they are when you're ranting in your basement to people who don't know your real name.

ECH, do you care to see how this looked from my eyes?  Because I won't bother if you don't.

[hooplala]

BTW, I feel like everybody is missing a key point in the whole "making fun of us for being spiritually-inclined is just like racism or sexis" thing, which is that nobody chooses to be born black or gay or a woman. That's really beside the point, though, the point being that this thread is 98% pointless butthurt.

I was about to make the same point.  The reason I am not equivalent to a white supremacist is twofold: First, I don't feel superior to anyone who believes in a god, for all I know they might be right.  I don't have evidence against a god... all I have is what I believe in my heart to be true, and in this case I simply don't believe that the existence of god, or any gods, is very likely.  Second, your belief in a god is not inborn, like skin color.  You came to the decision that you believed it, in the exact same manner I came to the decision that I didn't... I don't agree with you, and yes it does seem about the same as Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy to me, I am sincerely sorry if that is insulting to anyone, and I mean that.  It doesn't change the way I feel or think, though, and I don't think it's comparable to a group of people who promote the subjugation and sometimes murder of those they disagree with.

You feel there is no god in your heart but thats a choice? I didnt choose to believe its also something i feel in my heart. So a better analogy is that one of sexuality and choice of potentially toxic or healthy relationships.

You make a valid point... I would consider someone who thought being gay was silly to be a douchebag.  I'll need to think about that.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't see why it being a fucking choice makes any fucking difference whatsoever, assuming it IS a choice.  I don't see that for even one Goddamn minute.

I see The Other being created, over something that neither picks anyone's fucking pocket nor breaks their stupid fucking leg.  And it doesn't fucking matter why.

Except for the whole "I could be killed for saying what I believe" in many parts of the planet I am stuck on.

Wow.  You went there.

DOUR,
Chopping apostate's heads off, BRB.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I agree with this. In fact, unless you are like O'brien from 1984, I don't think you can actually choose to believe something.

It doesn't fucking matter if it's a fucking choice.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I don't see why it being a fucking choice makes any fucking difference whatsoever, assuming it IS a choice.  I don't see that for even one Goddamn minute.

I see The Other being created, over something that neither picks anyone's fucking pocket nor breaks their stupid fucking leg.  And it doesn't fucking matter why.

Except for the whole "I could be killed for saying what I believe" in many parts of the planet I am stuck on.

Are you refering specifically to religious beliefs? Because theres ample evidence of other types of martyrs.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

HEY GUISE, ATHEISTS KILLED LOADS OF PEOPLE IN THE USSR, CHINA, AND LAOS FOR BEING RELIGIOUS.

THEREFORE, ATHEISM IS DANGEROUS.

HURRR HURRR

[Lord Cataplanga]

I agree with this. In fact, unless you are like O'brien from 1984, I don't think you can actually choose to believe something.

It doesn't fucking matter if it's a fucking choice.

That too. It's not like you are hurting anybody with your choice. Can we talk about something that isn't our hurt feelings, now?
What happened to German debate?

[Golden Applesauce]

I don't see why it being a fucking choice makes any fucking difference whatsoever, assuming it IS a choice.  I don't see that for even one Goddamn minute.

I see The Other being created, over something that neither picks anyone's fucking pocket nor breaks their stupid fucking leg.  And it doesn't fucking matter why.

Except for the whole "I could be killed for saying what I believe" in many parts of the planet I am stuck on.

That's also true for most flavors of theism. Which is why it's in everyone's interest, theists and atheists, to argue for a pluralistic society in which we can disagree over beliefs and not declare that broad classes of people are fair game for mockery, dehumanization, and ultimately corpsification.