Atheists and White Supremacists

[Lord Cataplanga]

Well, the faster we start acting like emotionally mature human beings

Leaving now.

Did you get to the part about the reverse game of chicken?
Because breaking your steering wheel is what you are supposed to do in a normal game of chicken, not an inverted one 

Emotionally mature adults cannot be offended, never feel hurt, and don't mind being told that either of those things means they are not emotionally mature adults.

You arrogant bastard.

But I do mind and so do you. It is because we feel hurt and offended that we should stop retaliating and break from the wheel of dharma, so to speak.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Well, the faster we start acting like emotionally mature human beings

Leaving now.

Did you get to the part about the reverse game of chicken?
Because breaking your steering wheel is what you are supposed to do in a normal game of chicken, not an inverted one 

Emotionally mature adults cannot be offended, never feel hurt, and don't mind being told that either of those things means they are not emotionally mature adults.

You arrogant bastard.

But I do mind and so do you. It is because we feel hurt and offended that we should stop retaliating and break from the wheel of dharma, so to speak.

I'm going to enjoy a little moment of clarity for a second. 

I am not an expert in many things; in fact, my expertise is limited in many ways by the fact that I'm really rather dense and need to have things bashed through my skull before I understand them.

But I am a bit on expert on communication, if I do say so myself.  Not Nobel Prize winning expert, just routine expert.

And I have to say that WHEN YOU LECTURE PEOPLE BEFORE MAKING YOUR POINT, YOU ARE NOT COMMUNICATING WHAT YOU THINK YOU ARE COMMUNICATING.  I mean, I'm not SO stupid that I can't SEE what you're trying to say, but I am in fact a human being (even if I'm one that's "so dumb my fee-fees don't count"), and as such there is an emotional barrier that makes me inclined to reject your idea simply because I don't WANT TO FUCKING LISTEN to someone who SPEAKS TO ME AS IF I WERE A CHILD.

Now, this may mean that I am in fact not an emotionally mature human being.  It has in fact been implied by many people here that I am not actually a complete human AT ALL.  But, you know, I can live with that easier than I can with taking the time to communicate with someone whose ACTUAL MESSAGE is "LOOK HOW ABOVE THESE PETTY THINGS *I* AM, YOU APES, YOU SHOULD BE MORE LIKE ME".

Because even if that wasn't the message you intended to send, it's the one that arrived.

I will now return to my rage.  Thank you for your time.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I suppose there's no chance of getting back to the original topic, then.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I suppose there's no chance of getting back to the original topic, then.

OH, I'M SORRY.

LET ME JUST GET OUT OF THE WAY.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

A bit of a side point but what if someones god isnt an imaginary sky thing? I think thats also a point where we get annoyed by atheists. They seem to always trivialise it as imaginary sky creature or magical sky daddy or invisible sky gnome. Whats with the sky? Not all gods are sky gods or even comparable to each other in many ways. It supports nigels point about defining yourself by something that youre not. Atheism might not have a god but it sure seems like it has a devil sometimes.

Because most people understand that the discussion is not about Poseidon.

Its not? I thought atheism was a selection of all gods including poseidon. Not that i was refering to that either but rather a more pantheistic concept.

It is, but if the prevailing culture steadfastly worships Barbie, I don't see the point in wasting my time discussing Lite-Brite.

So the purpose is specifically oppose the abrahamic concept of god. Even though people of that persuasion do not literally see him as a sky god?

The common image of God is a man on a throne in heaven, in the sky.  I did not make this up.

That's how it's commonly explained to three year olds, yes. But a lot of people are functional enough to get past that, while still believing in what it represents, or at least allowing for the possibility that what it represents might be real.

Kind of like a Buddhist who takes the Lion Faced Dakini as a Yidam knows that there's no lady with a blue body and a lion face up in the sky. They use that image as a symbol of what they're trying to realize.

These people are getting lumped in with the "faithfools" by virtue of not being atheists.

And Stella, I assure you I disbelieve in all gods equally... except James Brown.

James Brown was like John the Baptist, the voice of one crying in the desert. George Clinton gave his only begotten Bootsy, that ye may have DA FUNK, and have it more abundantly.

[Lord Cataplanga]

Thank you, Roger. You may return to your incoherent rage while I contemplate your words in my pretended state of absolute zen clarity.

I think it's an aesthetic difference, that I simply prefer to pretend absolute calm even when not appropriate, while you prefer to mantain a healthy state of righteous indignation. I was wrong to say that my way was better than yours.

I suppose there's no chance of getting back to the original topic, then.

I've been thinking about that, but I just don't see what was so controversial, anymore.

[Golden Applesauce]

Anyway, back to what Nigel was saying, I agree that some assholes call themselves atheists, but saying that they "hijacked" the term and ruined it for the rest of us is a bit silly. Even if it were true, wouldn't saying that make you part of the problem? Like I said before, the only ones in this forum who actually use the word Atheist to mean something other than "someone who is not a theist" are Nigel and Roger, so from Cain's perspective (to put an example) it isn't assholes who have hijacked the term. It's Nigel. That's probably why he got angry.

He probably also made some unfortunate associations between what Nigel was saying and the kinds of idiotic things he often reads in tumblr, a subject he complained about before. Of course, Nigel isn't going to stop using the word "privilege" to mean what it actually means just because morons in tumblr are using the same word, just like Cain and Vex aren't going to stop using the word "atheist" just because some assholes in Reddit or wherever use the same word.

1) Using the term "Atheist" to mean "this specific subset of assholes who identify as atheist." I find it to be just as wrong-headed as complaining about "Muslims" and then clarifying "well, not those nice ones, the guys who blow things up, and really you don't see them putting a stop to it so isn't it kind of their fault, too?"

This reminds me of banks re-branding fraud as "Identity Theft." If someone robs a bank by pretending to be you and withdrawing money from your account, the bank turns around and holds you personally accountable for not keeping your identity secret instead of itself for failing to detect fraud or the crook for stealing. It's way out of responsibility by blaming the victim.

If some asshole goes and does shitty stuff under a label regular folks also go by, blaming the non assholes and telling them it's their responsibility to go find a new word for themselves is the same thing. The person understands that the label is not helpful, but instead of admitting their heuristic doesn't work they blame the people they discriminate against for not keeping people from using their identity.

[hooplala]

Well, I've come to the decision that my view of people who believe in gods is indeed bigoted. It's a rather disturbing realization to make. I still don't think insecurity has anything to do with it, but if Nigel's point was to get people to really examine their own prejudices, I guess it was a success.

[East Coast Hustle]

This thread still doesn't make much sense, except perhaps as an illustration of the idea that even those among us who are the smartest and most respected thinkers are still capable of laying a giant turd right in the punch bowl and insisting that everyone drink up.

And just because so many of the people responding to the OP are dead wrong doesn't mean the OP isn't ALSO dead wrong. It's dumbfuckery all the way down the rabbit hole ITT.

That's the official rational "I'm the admin and we should really all try to get along a little better" response.

Now for my personal response:

Holy fucking shit, is it REALLY the year 2013 and we're still whining about peoples' idiotic religious beliefs and how they don't like it when people make fun of them for it?

Get the fuck over yourselves, retards. If you're dumb enough to believe in a deity then nobody should have any sympathy or concern for your backward little fee-fees. And if you're arrogant enough or insecure enough or just plain smug enough to think that anyone gives two shits about the fact that you've figured out that the imaginary sky creatures are, in fact, imaginary then you should go shave your neckbeard and throw your fucksock in the laundry hamper and maybe spend a little time thinking about the fact that people are different and which of those differences are important and which of them maybe aren't as big a deal as you think they are when you're ranting in your basement to people who don't know your real name.

ECH, do you care to see how this looked from my eyes?  Because I won't bother if you don't.

Absolutely. I honestly doubt you'll change my position on the matter but I'm willing to be swayed and I'd certainly like to make sure I understand what you're saying.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

This thread still doesn't make much sense, except perhaps as an illustration of the idea that even those among us who are the smartest and most respected thinkers are still capable of laying a giant turd right in the punch bowl and insisting that everyone drink up.

And just because so many of the people responding to the OP are dead wrong doesn't mean the OP isn't ALSO dead wrong. It's dumbfuckery all the way down the rabbit hole ITT.

That's the official rational "I'm the admin and we should really all try to get along a little better" response.

Now for my personal response:

Holy fucking shit, is it REALLY the year 2013 and we're still whining about peoples' idiotic religious beliefs and how they don't like it when people make fun of them for it?

Get the fuck over yourselves, retards. If you're dumb enough to believe in a deity then nobody should have any sympathy or concern for your backward little fee-fees. And if you're arrogant enough or insecure enough or just plain smug enough to think that anyone gives two shits about the fact that you've figured out that the imaginary sky creatures are, in fact, imaginary then you should go shave your neckbeard and throw your fucksock in the laundry hamper and maybe spend a little time thinking about the fact that people are different and which of those differences are important and which of them maybe aren't as big a deal as you think they are when you're ranting in your basement to people who don't know your real name.

ECH, do you care to see how this looked from my eyes?  Because I won't bother if you don't.

Absolutely. I honestly doubt you'll change my position on the matter but I'm willing to be swayed and I'd certainly like to make sure I understand what you're saying.

[hyperbole]

SPEAKING AS THE MANAGEMENT, THIS COMPANY WILL NOT DISCRIMINATE ON THE BASIS OF AGE, RACE, GENDER, RELIGION, OR MARITAL STATUS.

Speaking as a person, get your stupid Jew asses back to work, ladies.  Thanks.

[/hyperbole]


I'm uncertain how you don't see your personal clarification to be dehumanizing.  I am in fact having a great deal of difficulty with that.  I understand what you were trying to do...ie, shame everyone back into acting reasonably, but that wasn't the message received.

What was received, at least to me, was that Twid and I are too stupid to be worth mentioning, much less consideration.  It's what you actually said.

The fact that you said it as a personal note makes it worse.

[East Coast Hustle]

My problems with what Nigel has actually said:

1) Using the term "Atheist" to mean "this specific subset of assholes who identify as atheist." I find it to be just as wrong-headed as complaining about "Muslims" and then clarifying "well, not those nice ones, the guys who blow things up, and really you don't see them putting a stop to it so isn't it kind of their fault, too?"


2) "Atheism is privilege." I illustrated why I do not believe that to be the case based on my personal experience.


If that's braying about an enflamed ass, I have no idea what you nutbags think rational disagreement looks like anymore.

My post was about my behavior, not yours.

Wasn't addressing you, specifically, just the tone that's being thrown around a lot. Also entirely uncomfortable with the fact that this is being painted as "let's pounce on the woman talking up!" But that's not Nigel's doing.

Yeah, that part is a little weird. It seems to imply that we can't take issue with what Nigel's saying unless there's some gender bias at play. An insinuation which is, of course, in and of itself full of bias.

I mean, I know she's smarter than me and I'm no dummy, but last I checked even Nigel could be wrong on occasion.

[East Coast Hustle]

This thread still doesn't make much sense, except perhaps as an illustration of the idea that even those among us who are the smartest and most respected thinkers are still capable of laying a giant turd right in the punch bowl and insisting that everyone drink up.

And just because so many of the people responding to the OP are dead wrong doesn't mean the OP isn't ALSO dead wrong. It's dumbfuckery all the way down the rabbit hole ITT.

That's the official rational "I'm the admin and we should really all try to get along a little better" response.

Now for my personal response:

Holy fucking shit, is it REALLY the year 2013 and we're still whining about peoples' idiotic religious beliefs and how they don't like it when people make fun of them for it?

Get the fuck over yourselves, retards. If you're dumb enough to believe in a deity then nobody should have any sympathy or concern for your backward little fee-fees. And if you're arrogant enough or insecure enough or just plain smug enough to think that anyone gives two shits about the fact that you've figured out that the imaginary sky creatures are, in fact, imaginary then you should go shave your neckbeard and throw your fucksock in the laundry hamper and maybe spend a little time thinking about the fact that people are different and which of those differences are important and which of them maybe aren't as big a deal as you think they are when you're ranting in your basement to people who don't know your real name.

ECH, do you care to see how this looked from my eyes?  Because I won't bother if you don't.

Absolutely. I honestly doubt you'll change my position on the matter but I'm willing to be swayed and I'd certainly like to make sure I understand what you're saying.

[hyperbole]

SPEAKING AS THE MANAGEMENT, THIS COMPANY WILL NOT DISCRIMINATE ON THE BASIS OF AGE, RACE, GENDER, RELIGION, OR MARITAL STATUS.

Speaking as a person, get your stupid Jew asses back to work, ladies.  Thanks.

[/hyperbole]


I'm uncertain how you don't see your personal clarification to be dehumanizing.  I am in fact having a great deal of difficulty with that.  I understand what you were trying to do...ie, shame everyone back into acting reasonably, but that wasn't the message received.

What was received, at least to me, was that Twid and I are too stupid to be worth mentioning, much less consideration.  It's what you actually said.

The fact that you said it as a personal note makes it worse.

I think you misread me. Or perhaps I didn't do a good job of making myself clear. My point was that though I personally find the very idea of God (or gods) to be ridiculously silly, it's not something that's even on my radar when I'm talking to another person unless they bring it up first and that INCLUDES whether or not they're an atheist. I mean, who the fuck even brings shit like that up in conversation? It's rude. And I wouldn't like someone who talked loudly about their atheism any more than someone who talks loudly about their religion. So my point was that my personal opinion is totally irrelevant and why the fuck do any of you think yours ARE relevant? Why can't everybody just shut up about it because it's got about as much to do with fuck-all as the price of tea in China. So if that's dehumanizing, it's dehumanizing EVERYONE. Including me.

[LMNO]

Well, I've come to the decision that my view of people who believe in gods is indeed bigoted. It's a rather disturbing realization to make. I still don't think insecurity has anything to do with it, but if Nigel's point was to get people to really examine their own prejudices, I guess it was a success.

Well, this is an interesting development.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

This thread still doesn't make much sense, except perhaps as an illustration of the idea that even those among us who are the smartest and most respected thinkers are still capable of laying a giant turd right in the punch bowl and insisting that everyone drink up.

And just because so many of the people responding to the OP are dead wrong doesn't mean the OP isn't ALSO dead wrong. It's dumbfuckery all the way down the rabbit hole ITT.

That's the official rational "I'm the admin and we should really all try to get along a little better" response.

Now for my personal response:

Holy fucking shit, is it REALLY the year 2013 and we're still whining about peoples' idiotic religious beliefs and how they don't like it when people make fun of them for it?

Get the fuck over yourselves, retards. If you're dumb enough to believe in a deity then nobody should have any sympathy or concern for your backward little fee-fees. And if you're arrogant enough or insecure enough or just plain smug enough to think that anyone gives two shits about the fact that you've figured out that the imaginary sky creatures are, in fact, imaginary then you should go shave your neckbeard and throw your fucksock in the laundry hamper and maybe spend a little time thinking about the fact that people are different and which of those differences are important and which of them maybe aren't as big a deal as you think they are when you're ranting in your basement to people who don't know your real name.

ECH, do you care to see how this looked from my eyes?  Because I won't bother if you don't.

Absolutely. I honestly doubt you'll change my position on the matter but I'm willing to be swayed and I'd certainly like to make sure I understand what you're saying.

[hyperbole]

SPEAKING AS THE MANAGEMENT, THIS COMPANY WILL NOT DISCRIMINATE ON THE BASIS OF AGE, RACE, GENDER, RELIGION, OR MARITAL STATUS.

Speaking as a person, get your stupid Jew asses back to work, ladies.  Thanks.

[/hyperbole]


I'm uncertain how you don't see your personal clarification to be dehumanizing.  I am in fact having a great deal of difficulty with that.  I understand what you were trying to do...ie, shame everyone back into acting reasonably, but that wasn't the message received.

What was received, at least to me, was that Twid and I are too stupid to be worth mentioning, much less consideration.  It's what you actually said.

The fact that you said it as a personal note makes it worse.

I think you misread me. Or perhaps I didn't do a good job of making myself clear. My point was that though I personally find the very idea of God (or gods) to be ridiculously silly, it's not something that's even on my radar when I'm talking to another person unless they bring it up first and that INCLUDES whether or not they're an atheist. I mean, who the fuck even brings shit like that up in conversation? It's rude. And I wouldn't like someone who talked loudly about their atheism any more than someone who talks loudly about their religion. So my point was that my personal opinion is totally irrelevant and why the fuck do any of you think yours ARE relevant? Why can't everybody just shut up about it because it's got about as much to do with fuck-all as the price of tea in China. So if that's dehumanizing, it's dehumanizing EVERYONE. Including me.

See, that was what I would have gotten, except for this clause:

If you're dumb enough to believe in a deity then nobody should have any sympathy or concern for your backward little fee-fees.

I don't see how that could be taken any other way.

It's not like Twid and I are kicking in peoples' doors and stuffing a Gideon's bible up their asses.  It's a personal thing.  Hell, I went 9 years before I ever mentioned it, and now I really regret the fact that I felt secure enough here to mention it when I did.

In that, you are 169% correct.  Anyone who even discusses the topic should have their head examined.  I see that now.

We as a group are not up to the conversation.  I knew that the country sure as fuck wasn't, that much is obvious.  But I thought we were.

[East Coast Hustle]

Or, put another way, you are a person with whom I desire to maintain communication and friendship. So the fact that you believe some shit I think is silly (and, presumably, vice versa) really doesn't matter and is not something I even think about. Assuming everyone ITT feels more or less the same way then why are we still beating our chests and waiting for someone else to stop posturing first?