Atheists and White Supremacists

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Wow, I guess I missed all the fun

It seems to me that this boils down to several truisms.

1. People who feel sure of a position tend to join a tribe which supports that position (There is YHVH, There is Allah, Thelemic Magic works, Free Market Works, There is not any God, The Government should be socialist, Fuck Everyone and Hail Eris etc etc etc).

2. All tribes have loud, obnoxious assholes (Fred Phelps, Bin Laden, Rush Limbaugh, Dawkins, AKK etc etc etc)

3. Often humans generalize the tribe based on the loud obnoxious assholes. They speak ill of the tribe, when they really intend to speak ill of the assholes.

4. Other members of the tribe can get pissed off when they're lumped in with the assholes.

5. Tribal identity can thus make even cool, non-assholes act like assholes, because their tribe has been attacked.

Faithfools, Libertards, Athiests, Pagans, Madjickians etc etc etc can all be broad generalized labels used to attack a tribe based on the loud tribal idiots. Since generalizations often are overly broad, other members of the tribe are upset since the generalization doesn't apply to them. Personal attacks, personal offense are thus normal defensive mechanisms of tribes.

That's actually pretty interesting.

Well, yeah, that was kinda the point of the thread.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

There is also the actual element I was trying to highlight, which is COMPLICIT SILENCE.

I think that we have all pretty much agreed in the past that it isn't OK to say nothing when someone is spewing racism or sexism. It is a silence which complies with the bigotry, and which therefore allows it to be perpetuated. If you are a white man and you don't object when another white man tells a nigger joke, you are complicit both in allowing the teller of the joke to believe it is acceptable to tell nigger jokes, and you are complicit in allowing the audience of the nigger joke to believe that the teller of the joke represents the attitudes of white men.

To use the most egregious possible example and get Godwin's Law out of the way, I'm sure there were a lot of Nazis who didn't want  any Jews to die. Are they who we think of when we remember Nazis? Of course not.

There are an increasing number of people who refuse to call themselves Atheists, because they don't want to be associated with the open and vocal bigotry that either represents Atheism, or which is being allowed to do so because of the complicit silence of the majority.

It's probably time to STOP SHUTTING UP.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Complicit silence, of course, also comes back to insecurity; "I don't want to criticize the tribe, they might shun me" and "I don't want to criticize the tribe, because internal criticism might make the tribe look weak".

Don't rock the boat.





Do your part to protect the tribe; attack anyone who rocks the boat.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

There is also the actual element I was trying to highlight, which is COMPLICIT SILENCE.

I stand corrected.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

There is also the actual element I was trying to highlight, which is COMPLICIT SILENCE.

I stand corrected.

There's a lot more to it, but I think that so many people are looking for a way for me to have not meant any of us, not REALLY have meant us, Nigel didn't mean it like that she was just playing, she wouldn't point the finger at US because we're DIFFERENT and EXCEPTIONAL.

Except I would't even bother talking about it here if I didn't mean us and if I didn't think that somehow by changing some brainmeats here, where most people actually THINK when they get uncomfortable instead of RUNNING AWAY yelling SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP, that MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE the bipedal primate department of PeeDee would go "Hmmm, what can I do about that?" and something might get change handed to its ass.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

There is also the actual element I was trying to highlight, which is COMPLICIT SILENCE.

I stand corrected.

There's a lot more to it, but I think that so many people are looking for a way for me to have not meant any of us, not REALLY have meant us, Nigel didn't mean it like that she was just playing, she wouldn't point the finger at US because we're DIFFERENT and EXCEPTIONAL.

Except I would't even bother talking about it here if I didn't mean us and if I didn't think that somehow by changing some brainmeats here, where most people actually THINK when they get uncomfortable instead of RUNNING AWAY yelling SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP, that MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE the bipedal primate department of PeeDee would go "Hmmm, what can I do about that?" and something might get change handed to its ass.

Special Pleading:  It's what's for dinner. 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

There is also the actual element I was trying to highlight, which is COMPLICIT SILENCE.

I think that we have all pretty much agreed in the past that it isn't OK to say nothing when someone is spewing racism or sexism. It is a silence which complies with the bigotry, and which therefore allows it to be perpetuated. If you are a white man and you don't object when another white man tells a nigger joke, you are complicit both in allowing the teller of the joke to believe it is acceptable to tell nigger jokes, and you are complicit in allowing the audience of the nigger joke to believe that the teller of the joke represents the attitudes of white men.

To use the most egregious possible example and get Godwin's Law out of the way, I'm sure there were a lot of Nazis who didn't want  any Jews to die. Are they who we think of when we remember Nazis? Of course not.

There are an increasing number of people who refuse to call themselves Atheists, because they don't want to be associated with the open and vocal bigotry that either represents Atheism, or which is being allowed to do so because of the complicit silence of the majority.

It's probably time to STOP SHUTTING UP.

That is also an excellent point. I was looking more at the discussion that ensued.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

There is also the actual element I was trying to highlight, which is COMPLICIT SILENCE.

I think that we have all pretty much agreed in the past that it isn't OK to say nothing when someone is spewing racism or sexism. It is a silence which complies with the bigotry, and which therefore allows it to be perpetuated. If you are a white man and you don't object when another white man tells a nigger joke, you are complicit both in allowing the teller of the joke to believe it is acceptable to tell nigger jokes, and you are complicit in allowing the audience of the nigger joke to believe that the teller of the joke represents the attitudes of white men.

To use the most egregious possible example and get Godwin's Law out of the way, I'm sure there were a lot of Nazis who didn't want  any Jews to die. Are they who we think of when we remember Nazis? Of course not.

There are an increasing number of people who refuse to call themselves Atheists, because they don't want to be associated with the open and vocal bigotry that either represents Atheism, or which is being allowed to do so because of the complicit silence of the majority.

It's probably time to STOP SHUTTING UP.

That is also an excellent point. I was looking more at the discussion that ensued.

Yeah well. That seems to be because the screeching that I wasn't being nice enough and making exceptions for everyone here started right away. As I recall I was basically told that I was wrong and that I should take it back. I went to class and missed most of it, and frankly I'm not likely to go back and read it now because I don't actually much enjoy being hated.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

There is also the actual element I was trying to highlight, which is COMPLICIT SILENCE.

I think that we have all pretty much agreed in the past that it isn't OK to say nothing when someone is spewing racism or sexism. It is a silence which complies with the bigotry, and which therefore allows it to be perpetuated. If you are a white man and you don't object when another white man tells a nigger joke, you are complicit both in allowing the teller of the joke to believe it is acceptable to tell nigger jokes, and you are complicit in allowing the audience of the nigger joke to believe that the teller of the joke represents the attitudes of white men.

To use the most egregious possible example and get Godwin's Law out of the way, I'm sure there were a lot of Nazis who didn't want  any Jews to die. Are they who we think of when we remember Nazis? Of course not.

There are an increasing number of people who refuse to call themselves Atheists, because they don't want to be associated with the open and vocal bigotry that either represents Atheism, or which is being allowed to do so because of the complicit silence of the majority.

It's probably time to STOP SHUTTING UP.

That is also an excellent point. I was looking more at the discussion that ensued.

Yeah well. That seems to be because the screeching that I wasn't being nice enough and making exceptions for everyone here started right away. As I recall I was basically told that I was wrong and that I should take it back. I went to class and missed most of it, and frankly I'm not likely to go back and read it now because I don't actually much enjoy being hated.

I didn't find your post to be any different than posts we've seen on other topics. I mean, I've posted about 'magic' and the argument hasn't been about "my interpretation of magic" but rather than loud and obnoxious assholes that blast the Internet with retarded interpretations of magic... or anarchy or libertarianism or whatever. I was surprised that so many people wanted 'exceptions', when so many topics here are addressed by looking at the loudest assholes.

I mean, we could all post in E-Prime to ensure that no one gets offended... but I'm kinda proud that PD cured me of that particular ailment

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

There is also the actual element I was trying to highlight, which is COMPLICIT SILENCE.

I think that we have all pretty much agreed in the past that it isn't OK to say nothing when someone is spewing racism or sexism. It is a silence which complies with the bigotry, and which therefore allows it to be perpetuated. If you are a white man and you don't object when another white man tells a nigger joke, you are complicit both in allowing the teller of the joke to believe it is acceptable to tell nigger jokes, and you are complicit in allowing the audience of the nigger joke to believe that the teller of the joke represents the attitudes of white men.

To use the most egregious possible example and get Godwin's Law out of the way, I'm sure there were a lot of Nazis who didn't want  any Jews to die. Are they who we think of when we remember Nazis? Of course not.

There are an increasing number of people who refuse to call themselves Atheists, because they don't want to be associated with the open and vocal bigotry that either represents Atheism, or which is being allowed to do so because of the complicit silence of the majority.

It's probably time to STOP SHUTTING UP.

That is also an excellent point. I was looking more at the discussion that ensued.

Yeah well. That seems to be because the screeching that I wasn't being nice enough and making exceptions for everyone here started right away. As I recall I was basically told that I was wrong and that I should take it back. I went to class and missed most of it, and frankly I'm not likely to go back and read it now because I don't actually much enjoy being hated.

I didn't find your post to be any different than posts we've seen on other topics. I mean, I've posted about 'magic' and the argument hasn't been about "my interpretation of magic" but rather than loud and obnoxious assholes that blast the Internet with retarded interpretations of magic... or anarchy or libertarianism or whatever. I was surprised that so many people wanted 'exceptions', when so many topics here are addressed by looking at the loudest assholes.

I mean, we could all post in E-Prime to ensure that no one gets offended... but I'm kinda proud that PD cured me of that particular ailment

Yeah.

I would say that with a couple of notable exceptions it didn't really go as hoped-for, with disappointment all around.

[hooplala]

There is also the actual element I was trying to highlight, which is COMPLICIT SILENCE.

I think that we have all pretty much agreed in the past that it isn't OK to say nothing when someone is spewing racism or sexism. It is a silence which complies with the bigotry, and which therefore allows it to be perpetuated. If you are a white man and you don't object when another white man tells a nigger joke, you are complicit both in allowing the teller of the joke to believe it is acceptable to tell nigger jokes, and you are complicit in allowing the audience of the nigger joke to believe that the teller of the joke represents the attitudes of white men.

To use the most egregious possible example and get Godwin's Law out of the way, I'm sure there were a lot of Nazis who didn't want  any Jews to die. Are they who we think of when we remember Nazis? Of course not.

There are an increasing number of people who refuse to call themselves Atheists, because they don't want to be associated with the open and vocal bigotry that either represents Atheism, or which is being allowed to do so because of the complicit silence of the majority.

It's probably time to STOP SHUTTING UP.

That is also an excellent point. I was looking more at the discussion that ensued.

Yeah well. That seems to be because the screeching that I wasn't being nice enough and making exceptions for everyone here started right away. As I recall I was basically told that I was wrong and that I should take it back. I went to class and missed most of it, and frankly I'm not likely to go back and read it now because I don't actually much enjoy being hated.

I don't think there's as much hate as you may suspect. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

There is also the actual element I was trying to highlight, which is COMPLICIT SILENCE.

I think that we have all pretty much agreed in the past that it isn't OK to say nothing when someone is spewing racism or sexism. It is a silence which complies with the bigotry, and which therefore allows it to be perpetuated. If you are a white man and you don't object when another white man tells a nigger joke, you are complicit both in allowing the teller of the joke to believe it is acceptable to tell nigger jokes, and you are complicit in allowing the audience of the nigger joke to believe that the teller of the joke represents the attitudes of white men.

To use the most egregious possible example and get Godwin's Law out of the way, I'm sure there were a lot of Nazis who didn't want  any Jews to die. Are they who we think of when we remember Nazis? Of course not.

There are an increasing number of people who refuse to call themselves Atheists, because they don't want to be associated with the open and vocal bigotry that either represents Atheism, or which is being allowed to do so because of the complicit silence of the majority.

It's probably time to STOP SHUTTING UP.

That is also an excellent point. I was looking more at the discussion that ensued.

Yeah well. That seems to be because the screeching that I wasn't being nice enough and making exceptions for everyone here started right away. As I recall I was basically told that I was wrong and that I should take it back. I went to class and missed most of it, and frankly I'm not likely to go back and read it now because I don't actually much enjoy being hated.

I don't think there's as much hate as you may suspect.

Still don't think I'm going to go back and find out, given what I came home to. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't think there's as much hate as you may suspect.

Yeah, well, more than half the board won't give either one of us the fucking time of day.

[hooplala]

I don't think there's as much hate as you may suspect.

Yeah, well, more than half the board won't give either one of us the fucking time of day.

In this particular thread I don't think there is as much hate towed Nigel in particular, as she may believe.   

[Ben Shapiro]

I don't think there's as much hate as you may suspect.

Yeah, well, more than half the board won't give either one of us the fucking time of day.

I honestly barely have anything new to post in a reply. If I do it's probably meaningless, or has already been said. I assume it would come off as a "like" on Facebook. Also you guys have a higher level of education than me, and more life experiences than me. I was dealt a better hand in life so I obviously can't relate to some of the experiences  you guys have punched through. A lot of times when I post I feel like that single un married guy among the people with kids etc talking about parent stuff. I do my best to ignore the chest thumping , or snarky comments whenever someone doesn't understand, or takes offense to my bluntness.

I tell the really real atheists that they will never be Carl Sagan, and walk away.