How many people think men and women would think the same if not for culture?

Started by tarod, October 25, 2013, 10:05:42 PM

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Pope Pixie Pickle

as how genes express themselves and how the brain forms changes based on the environment, then sex differences in the brain (hotly contested area, btw) seem from what I have read, to actually not be a major hardwired-from-the-factory  thing at all.

Tarod, I'd recommend Delusions Of Gender by Cordelia Fine. She has some interesting things to say about how culture influences the science behind trying to see if there are sex differences between the brain, and there is also this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3176412/ that states brains are intersex and not exactly gendered at all.


As for gender and brains (I'm taking gender to be different from the biological sex) and this is anecdote, one of my MtF friends had their estrogen vs testosterone levels checked and her t was very low.

Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 25, 2013, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:27:37 PM
I can't help it if they don't English good!

We understand it. It's just our response requires a blood sacrifice. Ask Stella about the walnut god.

Pecan. It's a pecan.

Behold it, bedecked with red ribbon and ready for your sacrifices:

Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on October 26, 2013, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 25, 2013, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:27:37 PM
I can't help it if they don't English good!

We understand it. It's just our response requires a blood sacrifice. Ask Stella about the walnut god.

Pecan. It's a pecan.

Behold it, bedecked with red ribbon and ready for your sacrifices:



PECANS FOR THE PECAN GOD!
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Pixie on October 26, 2013, 01:01:20 PM
as how genes express themselves and how the brain forms changes based on the environment, then sex differences in the brain (hotly contested area, btw) seem from what I have read, to actually not be a major hardwired-from-the-factory  thing at all.

Tarod, I'd recommend Delusions Of Gender by Cordelia Fine. She has some interesting things to say about how culture influences the science behind trying to see if there are sex differences between the brain, and there is also this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3176412/ that states brains are intersex and not exactly gendered at all.


As for gender and brains (I'm taking gender to be different from the biological sex) and this is anecdote, one of my MtF friends had their estrogen vs testosterone levels checked and her t was very low.

Androgen imbalance; EFO, who identifies as agender, also has an androgen imbalance. In her case she decided to treat it, partly because she also has very heavy periods and the treatment helps with that.

FTR the treatment has also helped with her depression.

Also FTR, I have a hypothesis that one or more of our environmental pollutants is an androgen disruptor and that we will see more and more such disorders along with a decrease in male fertility.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Pope Pixie Pickle

interesting.

IDK how many (or if any, the trans* community get very leery of medicalising gender identity stuff) studies have been done on pre-hormones or genderqueer trans* folks and their hormone levels.

Golden Applesauce

Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 26, 2013, 04:06:01 PM
Quote from: Pixie on October 26, 2013, 01:01:20 PM
as how genes express themselves and how the brain forms changes based on the environment, then sex differences in the brain (hotly contested area, btw) seem from what I have read, to actually not be a major hardwired-from-the-factory  thing at all.

Tarod, I'd recommend Delusions Of Gender by Cordelia Fine. She has some interesting things to say about how culture influences the science behind trying to see if there are sex differences between the brain, and there is also this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3176412/ that states brains are intersex and not exactly gendered at all.


As for gender and brains (I'm taking gender to be different from the biological sex) and this is anecdote, one of my MtF friends had their estrogen vs testosterone levels checked and her t was very low.

Androgen imbalance; EFO, who identifies as agender, also has an androgen imbalance. In her case she decided to treat it, partly because she also has very heavy periods and the treatment helps with that.

FTR the treatment has also helped with her depression.

Also FTR, I have a hypothesis that one or more of our environmental pollutants is an androgen disruptor and that we will see more and more such disorders along with a decrease in male fertility.

There's a lot of people very worried about environmental estrogens and other endocrine disruptors are causing both boys and girls hit puberty 1-3 years on earlier on average compared to historical records. There's also correlations with obesity and growing up under stress.

University of Michigan has a general outline with lots of citations for further reading.

I couldn't find it, but there was a good study where they put irritants that mimicked a fungal infection in beetles and observed their immune and sex response. At simulated minor infections, the beetles conserved sexually energy and boosted their immune systems, but after a point they went into kamikaze sex maniacs. I think the other research in the area focuses more on predation stress on prey animals reproductive strategy, but there's broad evidence that an evolutionarily favored response to high stress is panic reproduction mode.

I'd lay very good odds that high stress environments fuck with both your androgen & estrogen levels.
Q: How regularly do you hire 8th graders?
A: We have hired a number of FORMER 8th graders.

Ben Shapiro

Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on October 26, 2013, 03:26:44 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 25, 2013, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Payne on October 25, 2013, 11:27:37 PM
I can't help it if they don't English good!

We understand it. It's just our response requires a blood sacrifice. Ask Stella about the walnut god.

Pecan. It's a pecan.

Behold it, bedecked with red ribbon and ready for your sacrifices:




MORE MORE FOR THE HARVEST!

Ben Shapiro

Is there anything at all that's exclusive to a sex hard wiring function besides menstration etc?

Ben Shapiro


Ben Shapiro

The only thing I can think by default is woman are superior at being pilots and possibly astronauts due to body fat, bone structure, and muscle ratio under g forces.

Q. G. Pennyworth

Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 26, 2013, 10:26:21 PM
Is there anything at all that's exclusive to a sex hard wiring function besides menstration etc?

Brain stuff or physical? There's some significant differences in circulation.

Ben Shapiro

Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 26, 2013, 10:41:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 26, 2013, 10:26:21 PM
Is there anything at all that's exclusive to a sex hard wiring function besides menstration etc?
.

Brain stuff or physical? There's some significant differences in circulation.


Brain stuff. Since I know nothing

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

There are a lot of developmental differences but "hard-wired" is hard to define in some ways, because your experiences play a role in physical brain development, as do your hormones, which are mutable.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Golden Applesauce

Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 26, 2013, 10:43:06 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 26, 2013, 10:41:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 26, 2013, 10:26:21 PM
Is there anything at all that's exclusive to a sex hard wiring function besides menstration etc?
.

Brain stuff or physical? There's some significant differences in circulation.


Brain stuff. Since I know nothing

Males are more likely to have autism or schizophrenia (and females more likely to have depression and anxiety issues, but those are less clearly "hard-wired.")

Androgen, estrogen, and a levels of other hormones vary a lot between genders, and hormones have significant effects on the brain.
Q: How regularly do you hire 8th graders?
A: We have hired a number of FORMER 8th graders.

Golden Applesauce

Quote from: Mr. Bear on October 26, 2013, 10:31:15 PM
The only thing I can think by default is woman are superior at being pilots and possibly astronauts due to body fat, bone structure, and muscle ratio under g forces.

They also float better!
Q: How regularly do you hire 8th graders?
A: We have hired a number of FORMER 8th graders.