We Were Doing the Chimps a Disservice

[hooplala]

Study conducted on chimps and children... chimps think for themselves, more often than not, whereas human children follow the rules like good little soldiers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIAoJsS9Ix8

[Reginald Ret]

Interesting.

Though they did get different instructions.
Kids were told it was a game, wereas the chimps weren't told anything (I hope) so they assumed it was about getting candy, just like a human without instructions would.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'd like to point out that the study, or at least the video, is highly misleading because children are familiar with computer technology, making it not at all obvious that the tapping ritual is unnecessary, and that further, children are indoctrinated to obey by the school system and their parents, and you wouldn't see their true inclinations unless you left them ALONE with the box.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

"Oh, much like everything else I am asked to do in my life, I must follow a set of meaningless actions that accomplish nothing in order to get a meager and unfulfilling reward. OK."

[P3nT4gR4m]

"Oh, much like everything else I am asked to do in my life, I must follow a set of meaningless actions that accomplish nothing in order to get a meager and unfulfilling reward. OK."

Agreed. It's as much as a socio-cultural observation as it is psychology. Human society is all about breeding mindless drones. If we're a progression from primates (debatable) then we're moving more toward a hive culture than free thinking individuals. Which is a good thing from a purely survival perspective - ant colonies organise much more efficiently than groups of independent mammals

[Reginald Ret]

I'd like to point out that the study, or at least the video, is highly misleading because children are familiar with computer technology, making it not at all obvious that the tapping ritual is unnecessary, and that further, children are indoctrinated to obey by the school system and their parents, and you wouldn't see their true inclinations unless you left them ALONE with the box.

Very good point.
I'm reading Deschooling Society At the moment and it is related and just fascinating. I can recommend it to anyone who is interested in society, schooling, the future or.... well, everyone actually.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'd like to point out that the study, or at least the video, is highly misleading because children are familiar with computer technology, making it not at all obvious that the tapping ritual is unnecessary, and that further, children are indoctrinated to obey by the school system and their parents, and you wouldn't see their true inclinations unless you left them ALONE with the box.

Very good point.
I'm reading Deschooling Society At the moment and it is related and just fascinating. I can recommend it to anyone who is interested in society, schooling, the future or.... well, everyone actually.

That sounds right up my alley!

I'm currently trying to talk my ex into letting me unschool my youngest. It's a real bummer how indoctrinated everyone is to believe that grade school is necessary. The attitude that shitty school is better than no school is so prevalent that a lot of people act like I'm crazy when I suggest that kids would be better off left to their own devices. My ex-husband was like "that's not a plan". When I point out that I was unschooled and I did fine, and would have done even better with actual supportive parenting, people are like "yeah but you're unusual".

I didn't succeed at unschooling because I'm remarkable. I am remarkable because I was unschooled. My daughter has the potential to be equally remarkable, if we don't grind her spirit and creativity down with the relentless test-taking conformity of school.

[Reginald Ret]

I'd like to point out that the study, or at least the video, is highly misleading because children are familiar with computer technology, making it not at all obvious that the tapping ritual is unnecessary, and that further, children are indoctrinated to obey by the school system and their parents, and you wouldn't see their true inclinations unless you left them ALONE with the box.

Very good point.
I'm reading Deschooling Society At the moment and it is related and just fascinating. I can recommend it to anyone who is interested in society, schooling, the future or.... well, everyone actually.

That sounds right up my alley!

I'm currently trying to talk my ex into letting me unschool my youngest. It's a real bummer how indoctrinated everyone is to believe that grade school is necessary. The attitude that shitty school is better than no school is so prevalent that a lot of people act like I'm crazy when I suggest that kids would be better off left to their own devices. My ex-husband was like "that's not a plan". When I point out that I was unschooled and I did fine, and would have done even better with actual supportive parenting, people are like "yeah but you're unusual".

I didn't succeed at unschooling because I'm remarkable. I am remarkable because I was unschooled. My daughter has the potential to be equally remarkable, if we don't grind her spirit and creativity down with the relentless test-taking conformity of school.

So much thisness.

A translated quote (I have the dutch translation of the book)

The money, people and good-will that are available for educational goals, are all taken by the school making it impossible for other institutes to take on pedagogical tasks. Because schooling is considered a requirement for living-habits and knowledge, work, leisure, politics, citylife and even familiylife are made dependent on schools, instead of being educational tools themselves.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yes; it's sheer madness, and it fails to even do the one thing it purports to do, which is train children for college. We send our kids for six to eight hours a day to an institution which they hate, and that institution sends them home with three more hours of mind-numbingly repetitive homework, and they do it and go back the next day. We've taken learning, something children do naturally, and we've perverted it into an abomination.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm a full-time honors science major and I don't spend 11-12 hours a day on schoolwork. Not even close. It's absurd that my ten-year-old is asked to.

[Reginald Ret]

I'm a full-time honors science major and I don't spend 11-12 hours a day on schoolwork. Not even close. It's absurd that my ten-year-old is asked to.

But if we don't keep the children occupied they will go do bad things!

[hirley0]

Interesting.

Though they did get different instructions.
Kids were told it was a game, wereas the chimps weren't told anything (I hope) so they assumed it was about getting candy, {Mixed Nuts
just like a human without instructions would.