'Butthurt' and being offended

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I really respect (and admire) how unflappable you are, Pent, even in the midst of people, myself included, getting all riled up.

[Chelagoras The Boulder]

I think an important distinction between offense and butthurt is that in the latter, feeling a way about something isn't enough. It's not enough that YOU found that Joke/Movie/Facebook post offensive it's that you feel the need for other people to feel exactly as outraged as you do, and even going so far as to demand that  they Do Something About IT! Theres definitely an aspect of needing to make your own emotional responses Someone Else's Problem.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think an important distinction between offense and butthurt is that in the latter, feeling a way about something isn't enough. It's not enough that YOU found that Joke/Movie/Facebook post offensive it's that you feel the need for other people to feel exactly as outraged as you do, and even going so far as to demand that  they Do Something About IT! Theres definitely an aspect of needing to make your own emotional responses Someone Else's Problem.

That isn't always accurate either, because asking your peers to stand up against racism or sexism or other bigotry when they see it isn't necessarily reflective of butthurt, it's more reflective of hoping you can collectively take action to make a positive change in society.

[East Coast Hustle]

It's a matter of perspective, I guess. I tend not to lose my shit when I'm in an actual life or death situation, would seem silly to lose it cos someone said something dumb. If I do lose my shit then it's more likely to result in violence. Yelling and bawling is a kind of middle step that I've never had much to do with. Best just to proceed directly to the broken bones resolution. Even then, it's been at least 20 years since someone offended me all the way to intensive care.

I'm reminded of the reason I don't use the c-word much (if at all) on here anymore. Given that it's practically punctuation IRL. I remember a lot of people taking offence and getting all righteous and preachy on my ass and I was happy to wave all the middle fingers I had at my disposal and carry on regardless. Then Nigel mentioned that she didn't like it and told me why and so I did it out of respect for her. Because she didn't lose her shit, just calmly stated her position. That's the thing with me, you want me to do something and you have my respect, I'll walk through fire for ya. Getting all ranty and indignant and screeching and hollering? That's more funny to me. And I wont let a good joke die, if I can help it.

This this this. A million times this.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It's easier to explain by example.

I WAS offended by Coyote's first response to me in the atheist thread.  I am over that.

I AM butthurt by Dingo's insistence that my refusal to be associated with a pedo was "trying to control his (Dingo's, not the pedo's) project".  This was a very long time ago, and I am still pissed off.

Or

I AM offended by ECH's haircut, which is un-American.

I WAS butthurt over Hugh's reading of my PMs, among many other things.  My butthurt was cured by him going (literally) insane a few years back.

[East Coast Hustle]

My haircut?

Good sir, I assure you that I don't even know what a haircut is.

And yeah, I'm still wicked butthurt about Dingo's bullshit too. What a fucking douchecanoe.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

My haircut?

Good sir, I assure you that I don't even know what a haircut is.

And yeah, I'm still wicked butthurt about Dingo's bullshit too. What a fucking douchecanoe.

Thing is, everyone gets butthurt.  EVERYONE.

But nobody wants to admit it.  It's like watching 25 year olds get drunk.  "I'M JUST BUZZED, borb hurk puke".

But if you won't admit it, you can't do anything about it.

Or, as in my case, decide that in some cases, you have no intention of doing anything about it.  Butthurt isn't automatically BAD, and is in some cases appropriate.

[Dildo Argentino]

It's a matter of perspective, I guess. I tend not to lose my shit when I'm in an actual life or death situation, would seem silly to lose it cos someone said something dumb. If I do lose my shit then it's more likely to result in violence. Yelling and bawling is a kind of middle step that I've never had much to do with. Best just to proceed directly to the broken bones resolution. Even then, it's been at least 20 years since someone offended me all the way to intensive care.

I'm reminded of the reason I don't use the c-word much (if at all) on here anymore. Given that it's practically punctuation IRL. I remember a lot of people taking offence and getting all righteous and preachy on my ass and I was happy to wave all the middle fingers I had at my disposal and carry on regardless. Then Nigel mentioned that she didn't like it and told me why and so I did it out of respect for her. Because she didn't lose her shit, just calmly stated her position. That's the thing with me, you want me to do something and you have my respect, I'll walk through fire for ya. Getting all ranty and indignant and screeching and hollering? That's more funny to me. And I wont let a good joke die, if I can help it.

This this this. A million times this.

I think anger (my translation of "losing my shit", correct me if I am wrong) is much misunderstood in our culture. And the reason is that appropriate anger as a response to the present situation is an exceedingly rare phenomenon. Much more common is anger that is triggered by some trivial cue but is actually driven by old luggage that the angry person is not dealing with, refusing to deal with... and people were mistaking that for anger as such for thousands of years, Marcus Aurelius wrote a bloody book about how being angry is just badwrong.

Someone quite well versed in the ancient Chinese flavour of metaphysics explained to me once that at one time at least, anger was certainly viewed as a positive, life-affirming emotion. There was even a parable: when a seed is planted under ground, it needs to expend all its energy to grow a shoot that reaches the surface, the sunlight. It needs to direct all its resources towards that goal. Anger, in a life-threatening situation, is like that: it is a way of arranging all resources into a single movement in a well-defined direction.

Of course, that kind of anger is quite different from hysterics. It is not incompatible with self-control at all. My most recent experience is the car accident last year: as it was happening, and the minibus was sliding, hitting the barrier, then bouncing off, teetering on two wheels and then slowly turning over, and my wife and little girl were screaming in the back, there was a slowing down of time and panic offered itself: it was ousted by something white hot and very strong, and, thank God, I accelerated to my most effective in a matter of seconds. Apart from mild PTSD lasting a couple of months, nobody was hurt.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Biologically speaking, there's probably a whole lot of other shit going on that I don't know about but I tend to lump the cumulative effect under the heading "adrenaline"

The impression I get is that (much like with alcohol) a lot of people can't handle their adrenaline. Maybe they're not used to it or maybe their body produces too much for them or maybe they've never thought about trying to control it but, whatever the reason, I see it all the time. Someone "loses it", gets a totally inappropriate adrenaline spike and immediately devolves into a bright red, foaming at the mouth, parody of the human being you were with just a minute ago.

I say "inappropriate" because, srsly, someone just said something dumb, your body is not under attack by wolves or falling off a cliff. WTF?? Contrary to the Incredible Hulk - myth, flying into a blind rage does not make you the ultimate killing machine, it makes you stupid and clumsy and unable to think or act effectively.

Adrenaline is addictive. I'm pretty sure science backs this up. I know for a fact that I have been, and probably still am totally hooked but I never let it take over, turn into panic/rage otherwise I'd die. I feel the surge, everything slows down and my muscles start running on turbo. People who throw temper tantrums all the time strike me as people who are also addicted to adrenaline but seem to be using it to serve some purpose it wasn't designed for. Like using diabonol to relax.

The really weird thing is that they seem to not like it. Must really suck to be hooked on a drug you hate

[Dildo Argentino]

Biologically speaking, there's probably a whole lot of other shit going on that I don't know about but I tend to lump the cumulative effect under the heading "adrenaline"

The impression I get is that (much like with alcohol) a lot of people can't handle their adrenaline. Maybe they're not used to it or maybe their body produces too much for them or maybe they've never thought about trying to control it but, whatever the reason, I see it all the time. Someone "loses it", gets a totally inappropriate adrenaline spike and immediately devolves into a bright red, foaming at the mouth, parody of the human being you were with just a minute ago.

I say "inappropriate" because, srsly, someone just said something dumb, your body is not under attack by wolves or falling off a cliff. WTF?? Contrary to the Incredible Hulk - myth, flying into a blind rage does not make you the ultimate killing machine, it makes you stupid and clumsy and unable to think or act effectively.

Adrenaline is addictive. I'm pretty sure science backs this up. I know for a fact that I have been, and probably still am totally hooked but I never let it take over, turn into panic/rage otherwise I'd die. I feel the surge, everything slows down and my muscles start running on turbo. People who throw temper tantrums all the time strike me as people who are also addicted to adrenaline but seem to be using it to serve some purpose it wasn't designed for. Like using diabonol to relax.

The really weird thing is that they seem to not like it. Must really suck to be hooked on a drug you hate

Right, I think that's all completely correct as far as it goes. But this bit, we share with reptiles and solitary mammals. There's a great deal of interesting stuff added on top of that because of the neocortex and because we are social animals. I think in between surrendering to my adrenaline/anger and controlling it, there is a state of playing it. Like a musical instrument. I think that's probably what you do, in your kayak adventures... it is deeply satisfying, I agree. I tend to go on very long hikes, sleeping out, getting into and out of trouble as it comes along, and it does the same thing. So does cycling as fast as I can through heavy city traffic.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Yeah, the neocortex stuff is, I think why an adrenaline response is triggered. I'm sure I read this somewhere recently. Someone yells "Help my ego is under attack" and the plumbing steps in with "Attack? Yup, we have something for that - FIGHT OR FLIGHT!!!"

Our bodies are not designed to deal with abstracts

[Dildo Argentino]

Yeah, the neocortex stuff is, I think why an adrenaline response is triggered. I'm sure I read this somewhere recently. Someone yells "Help my ego is under attack" and the plumbing steps in with "Attack? Yup, we have something for that - FIGHT OR FLIGHT!!!"

Our bodies are not designed to deal with abstracts

But the neocortex is also capable of dealing with the signals from the plumbing. I think that (as opposed to not having fear) is courage, actually. The ability to deal with a rather large surge of adrenaline without regression.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Totally. You just have to train it or get used to it or whatever. I think your onto something with fear/courage dichotomy. Maybe something along the lines of fear being what happens when adrenaline is running the show and courage being what happens when you are making best use of the adrenaline.

I must admit I tend not to think of what I do as courageous. It's just having fun. Mildly dangerous fun but fun nonetheless. However, I've had to deal with many a newbie completely losing it in a scary situation. I sympathise because I have memories of being terrified out my wits in similar situations but nowadays I don't get scared, I just get focussed.

[Dildo Argentino]

Totally. You just have to train it or get used to it or whatever. I think your onto something with fear/courage dichotomy. Maybe something along the lines of fear being what happens when adrenaline is running the show and courage being what happens when you are making best use of the adrenaline.

I must admit I tend not to think of what I do as courageous. It's just having fun. Mildly dangerous fun but fun nonetheless. However, I've had to deal with many a newbie completely losing it in a scary situation. I sympathise because I have memories of being terrified out my wits in similar situations but nowadays I don't get scared, I just get focussed.

I think we are in agreement here, basically. Perhaps I would try to improve the phrasing: Panic is what happens when fear is running the show. Courage is what happens when you are responding to your fear optimally.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Biologically speaking, there's probably a whole lot of other shit going on that I don't know about but I tend to lump the cumulative effect under the heading "adrenaline"

The impression I get is that (much like with alcohol) a lot of people can't handle their adrenaline. Maybe they're not used to it or maybe their body produces too much for them or maybe they've never thought about trying to control it but, whatever the reason, I see it all the time. Someone "loses it", gets a totally inappropriate adrenaline spike and immediately devolves into a bright red, foaming at the mouth, parody of the human being you were with just a minute ago.

I say "inappropriate" because, srsly, someone just said something dumb, your body is not under attack by wolves or falling off a cliff. WTF?? Contrary to the Incredible Hulk - myth, flying into a blind rage does not make you the ultimate killing machine, it makes you stupid and clumsy and unable to think or act effectively.

Adrenaline is addictive. I'm pretty sure science backs this up. I know for a fact that I have been, and probably still am totally hooked but I never let it take over, turn into panic/rage otherwise I'd die. I feel the surge, everything slows down and my muscles start running on turbo. People who throw temper tantrums all the time strike me as people who are also addicted to adrenaline but seem to be using it to serve some purpose it wasn't designed for. Like using diabonol to relax.

The really weird thing is that they seem to not like it. Must really suck to be hooked on a drug you hate

I had to be a giant dick today, and I totally got an adrenaline rush from it.