"Tranny"

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I know, I'm unheathily addicted to this topic:

http://boingboing.net/2014/04/04/rupaul.html

It seems Ms Malloy has a real problem with Ru Paul.  And objectivity.  And drag queens.

I'm glad Andrea wrote that, and it breaks my heart to see narrow-minded cishet men who have transformed themselves into narrow-minded translesbians targeting the old guard who have worked hardest, faced the most danger from society, and done the most to promote social acceptance, for their hatred and bigotry.

I woke up this morning to my twitter feed containing a mixture of rants and discussion about that article, from the other perspective. (I didn't know Andrea or Mallory existed yesterday.) Apparently the "young guard" (??) bears a lot of resentment to the old guard, and claim the old guard is/was gender policing young trans people, e.g., that you must be attracted to men to be a real trans woman (b/c all women are attracted to men or something?)

I wonder how much of that is actual pressure they're receiving from oldschool transexuals and crossdressers, and how much is their own personal insecurity?

I also think that there is a small (minority, yet vocal) subset of the trans community which consists of the same mindset of young XY as enters the PUA and MRA communities, who need an external enemy to use as a scapegoat for their internal conflicts, who carry a deeply-embedded sense of entitlement, and have come to believe that all their problems will be solved if they just do this one thing hard enough, and can "defeat" the "enemy". So, they rail against the people who, rather than seeking to be entirely one or the other, straddle the line between man and women; the people who are comfortable being identified as chicks with dicks. They're the most threatening, because they reside in the gray area these particular young newly-minted transwomen want to see eradicated; the area they think is the source of their personal pain.

The reason I specify XY person is a particular one; they are, and have historically been, the most highly susceptible to cults and extremist movements, as well as the most combative. I have met some, but far fewer, transmen who espouse that level of extremist thinking.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think the entitlement aspect is pretty crucial, as it's pervasive through the mindset, whether we're talking about people who feel entitled to a woman's time and attention, people who feel entitled to walk away from supporting their children, or people who feel entitled to call the shots for all trans* people, including those who were fighting for equality before the entitled ones were born.

[LMNO]

I've been thinking about it in a different way; more as, "Why does a minority group so often lash out at other minority groups that could easily be considered allies?"

What I noticed is that the antagonistic group can often be seen as a subset of the group on the receiving end¹.  And I realized that they're pretty much the only ones who would have a chance of recognizing that subset even exists.

For example, while much of the gay/drag queen community knows the myriad forms trans* can take, the people who tangibly make life worse for them only see "a buncha fuckin' queers."  There's no distinction, so it's much harder for a trans* activist to stake out their own personal claim. 

So, while Joe McAsshole is stomping the ever-living fuck out of both of their rights, the trans* activist is going after RuPaul and Dan Savage, because at least they know what the trans* activist is talking about.
















¹No pun intended.

[hooplala]

I think there's something to that.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I've been thinking about it in a different way; more as, "Why does a minority group so often lash out at other minority groups that could easily be considered allies?"

What I noticed is that the antagonistic group can often be seen as a subset of the group on the receiving end¹.  And I realized that they're pretty much the only ones who would have a chance of recognizing that subset even exists.

For example, while much of the gay/drag queen community knows the myriad forms trans* can take, the people who tangibly make life worse for them only see "a buncha fuckin' queers."  There's no distinction, so it's much harder for a trans* activist to stake out their own personal claim. 

So, while Joe McAsshole is stomping the ever-living fuck out of both of their rights, the trans* activist is going after RuPaul and Dan Savage, because at least they know what the trans* activist is talking about.

No.  What is happening is that a certain subset of people want to stake their claim, as you say, to their fair share of the oppression, so they can holler and hate.  The people who actively hate them will not be shocked or conciliatory, so they aren't even on the radar.  The people who will react and give validation to the ME ME ME screeching of the Social Justice Warrior™ are those that wanted to help, or are otherwise peripherally involved.  Those, mind you, whom Garbo referred to sneeringly as "cookie seekers".

They are like horrible children, playing dress up in the clothing of giants; donning the mantles of Martin Luther King Jr and Mohammed Ali and Gloria Steinem and countless others, as preparation for rolling around in pig shit, to show each other which one is the stinkiest hero in the sty.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think the entitlement aspect is pretty crucial, as it's pervasive through the mindset, whether we're talking about people who feel entitled to a woman's time and attention, people who feel entitled to walk away from supporting their children, or people who feel entitled to call the shots for all trans* people, including those who were fighting for equality before the entitled ones were born.

Well, it's HARD for them to be the HERO, when they are standing in the shadows of titans.

So the titans have to be removed.

[hooplala]

I've been thinking about it in a different way; more as, "Why does a minority group so often lash out at other minority groups that could easily be considered allies?"

What I noticed is that the antagonistic group can often be seen as a subset of the group on the receiving end¹.  And I realized that they're pretty much the only ones who would have a chance of recognizing that subset even exists.

For example, while much of the gay/drag queen community knows the myriad forms trans* can take, the people who tangibly make life worse for them only see "a buncha fuckin' queers."  There's no distinction, so it's much harder for a trans* activist to stake out their own personal claim. 

So, while Joe McAsshole is stomping the ever-living fuck out of both of their rights, the trans* activist is going after RuPaul and Dan Savage, because at least they know what the trans* activist is talking about.

No.  What is happening is that a certain subset of people want to stake their claim, as you say, to their fair share of the oppression, so they can holler and hate.  The people who actively hate them will not be shocked or conciliatory, so they aren't even on the radar.  The people who will react and give validation to the ME ME ME screeching of the Social Justice Warrior™ are those that wanted to help, or are otherwise peripherally involved.  Those, mind you, whom Garbo referred to sneeringly as "cookie seekers".

They are like horrible children, playing dress up in the clothing of giants; donning the mantles of Martin Luther King Jr and Mohammed Ali and Gloria Steinem and countless others, as preparation for rolling around in pig shit, to show each other which one is the stinkiest hero in the sty.

You're basically saying the same thing LMNO did, though.  To paraphrase both: "the homophobes who deserve derision simply don't give a shit, so they turn on whoever is at least paying attention"

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I've been thinking about it in a different way; more as, "Why does a minority group so often lash out at other minority groups that could easily be considered allies?"

What I noticed is that the antagonistic group can often be seen as a subset of the group on the receiving end¹.  And I realized that they're pretty much the only ones who would have a chance of recognizing that subset even exists.

For example, while much of the gay/drag queen community knows the myriad forms trans* can take, the people who tangibly make life worse for them only see "a buncha fuckin' queers."  There's no distinction, so it's much harder for a trans* activist to stake out their own personal claim. 

So, while Joe McAsshole is stomping the ever-living fuck out of both of their rights, the trans* activist is going after RuPaul and Dan Savage, because at least they know what the trans* activist is talking about.

No.  What is happening is that a certain subset of people want to stake their claim, as you say, to their fair share of the oppression, so they can holler and hate.  The people who actively hate them will not be shocked or conciliatory, so they aren't even on the radar.  The people who will react and give validation to the ME ME ME screeching of the Social Justice Warrior™ are those that wanted to help, or are otherwise peripherally involved.  Those, mind you, whom Garbo referred to sneeringly as "cookie seekers".

They are like horrible children, playing dress up in the clothing of giants; donning the mantles of Martin Luther King Jr and Mohammed Ali and Gloria Steinem and countless others, as preparation for rolling around in pig shit, to show each other which one is the stinkiest hero in the sty.

You're basically saying the same thing LMNO did, though.  The homophobes who deserve derision simply don't give a shit, so they turn on whoever is at least paying attention.

Sorry, lack of sleep on my end.   

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Having read it again, I'm sticking to my end.

The homophobes are not in a group which can be controlled by the SJWs, regardless of whether or not they understand what is being said.  The allie are, in many cases.

It has nothing to do with communication or understanding.  It has to do with Jim Jones and David Koresh and L R Hubbard.

[hooplala]

Having read it again, I'm sticking to my end.

The homophobes are not in a group which can be controlled by the SJWs, regardless of whether or not they understand what is being said.  The allie are, in many cases.

It has nothing to do with communication or understanding.  It has to do with Jim Jones and David Koresh and L R Hubbard.

It still seems like basically the same idea to me, so I will say I agree with both of you.    But, maybe I'm missing some crucial aspect.  It wouldn't be the first time.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Having read it again, I'm sticking to my end.

The homophobes are not in a group which can be controlled by the SJWs, regardless of whether or not they understand what is being said.  The allies are, in many cases.

It has nothing to do with communication or understanding.  It has to do with Jim Jones and David Koresh and L R Hubbard.

It still seems like basically the same idea to me, so I will say I agree with both of you.    But, maybe I'm missing some crucial aspect.  It wouldn't be the first time.

The end result is the same, the motive is slightly different.  They do not ignore the yahoos because the yahoos cannot understand them.  They ignore the yahoos because the allies are already in the tent, already understand, and just need to be flogged into obedience to the SJW guru in question

Half the work, far better results.  For a given goal, anyway.

[hooplala]

Having read it again, I'm sticking to my end.

The homophobes are not in a group which can be controlled by the SJWs, regardless of whether or not they understand what is being said.  The allies are, in many cases.

It has nothing to do with communication or understanding.  It has to do with Jim Jones and David Koresh and L R Hubbard.

It still seems like basically the same idea to me, so I will say I agree with both of you.    But, maybe I'm missing some crucial aspect.  It wouldn't be the first time.

The end result is the same, the motive is slightly different.  They do not ignore the yahoos because the yahoos cannot understand them.  They ignore the yahoos because the allies are already in the tent, already understand, and just need to be flogged into obedience to the SJW guru in question

Half the work, far better results.  For a given goal, anyway.

Ah, I see.

Well then:

I think there's something to that.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Having read it again, I'm sticking to my end.

The homophobes are not in a group which can be controlled by the SJWs, regardless of whether or not they understand what is being said.  The allie are, in many cases.

It has nothing to do with communication or understanding.  It has to do with Jim Jones and David Koresh and L R Hubbard.

Status games. Much more important instantly gratifying than some complex problem with no simple solution.

[LMNO]

Oh look, a Dead Kennedys song.

Ever notice hard line radicals
Can go on start trips too
Where no one's pure and right
Except themselves "I'm cleansed of the system."
('Cept when my amp needs electric power)
Or-"The Party Line says no.
Feminists can't wear fishnets."
You wanna help stop war?
Well, we reject your application
You crack too many jokes
And you eat meat
What better way to turn people off
Than to twist ideas for change
Into one more church
That forgets we're all human beings

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Oh look, a Dead Kennedys song.

Ever notice hard line radicals
Can go on start trips too
Where no one's pure and right
Except themselves "I'm cleansed of the system."
('Cept when my amp needs electric power)
Or-"The Party Line says no.
Feminists can't wear fishnets."
You wanna help stop war?
Well, we reject your application
You crack too many jokes
And you eat meat
What better way to turn people off
Than to twist ideas for change
Into one more church
That forgets we're all human beings