Author Topic: THUG  (Read 8412 times)

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 77698
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
THUG
« on: March 05, 2014, 03:25:15 am »
I just today realized that I have an issue with the word "thug". Even though the lady who used it on my FB page tonight wasn't referring specifically to black people, and was in fact talking about insular, ignorant, and often poor/rural people, I totally just had that gut reaction that you get when people say "porch monkey" (though I have to confess, I was sheltered enough that I didn't know what that term meant until I was 18).

Now, FB lady is seriously one of the nicest people on earth. I mean, she would never, ever, EVER say the word "thug" in a way that intended any racial connotations. And she's older, so for her, if it DID have racial connotations, it would be way more appropriate for Dimo to be offended that me (that cultural context thing is something those Tumblr twits would do well to gain a grasp on). So there is no way I'm going to say anything to her about it, because it just wouldn't be appropriate. And, of course, the etymological origins lie far away from this continent, in India, so it certainly has nothing to do with the deep history of the word.

So I'm just here, ruminating, and wondering what it means that I have a gut reaction to this word, and whether it is at least partly because of a larger shift in the cultural context of the way it's used.

Thoughts?
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Salty

  • Anarcho-Kardashian, Prophet
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 6032
    • View Profile
Re: THUG
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2014, 03:37:16 am »
I wouldn't say I have a strong reaction to it, but I do find it strange and think about it quite a bit.

It is very weird. On one hand, the definition of a common criminal, or someone who uses violence to get what they want, or as a part of how they earn a living is something that doesn't make me think of black people. I actually think of italian mobsters first. But really anyone who uses brute force to acheive their aims.

According to urban dictionary, Tupac meant it specifically as someone who lives a life of struggle with no hope, more or less. Whicb, is an altogether different thing. And I can understand why some would carry that term with pride.

Then you have people who hear rappers and people who like rap use it in one context and assume another.

Like my grandmother who once said, "All they ever talk about is killin'" when I tried to listen to a hip hope station. Killing Me Softly came on and she said, "See, I told you."

 :lulz:
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

The Johnny

  • did nots
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 4428
    • View Profile
Re: THUG
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2014, 03:43:26 am »

Well, im far off from your context, but what comes to mind when thug is said is:

A) Blackwater mercenaries

B) Black ghetto gangbangers

So, although Blackwater probably is predominantly white for all i know, its interesting how in both cases the word "black" is in there, so maybe theres something semiotically going on.  :?
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

Salty

  • Anarcho-Kardashian, Prophet
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 6032
    • View Profile
Re: THUG
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2014, 03:45:22 am »
I suppose I usually think of the CIA as well when then word comes to mind.
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

East Coast Hustle

  • Missile Command
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 30416
  • Omnimalevolent Polyfather of Exsanguination in Red
    • View Profile
Re: THUG
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2014, 04:36:01 am »
The idea that "thug" is a racially-loaded term is new to me, but I'm now aware that it is frequently used that way. I have always used it in the context of "someone who's primary purpose is intimidation or violence".
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Ben Shapiro

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 2124
  • Can one really say that pot isn't reckless?
    • View Profile
    • Preventing another Big Tobacco
Re: THUG
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2014, 04:43:04 am »
"Thug" is now being used by teabaggers, and the GOP in place of "Nigger". Just letting everyone here know my observation. I sort of picked up on it last year, and after the Trevon case it reinforced my suspicion. Don't know is it's akin to "you people".

Ben Shapiro

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 2124
  • Can one really say that pot isn't reckless?
    • View Profile
    • Preventing another Big Tobacco
Re: THUG
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2014, 04:44:50 am »
The idea that "thug" is a racially-loaded term is new to me, but I'm now aware that it is frequently used that way. I have always used it in the context of "someone who's primary purpose is intimidation or violence".

Pay attention to the media whenever you can. Pay attention to who is labeled a "Thug".

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 77698
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
Re: THUG
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2014, 05:15:37 am »
"Thug" is now being used by teabaggers, and the GOP in place of "Nigger". Just letting everyone here know my observation. I sort of picked up on it last year, and after the Trevon case it reinforced my suspicion. Don't know is it's akin to "you people".

I think that might be what I'm responding to. I know this is a new reaction for me, I've never noticed it before the past year.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Ben Shapiro

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 2124
  • Can one really say that pot isn't reckless?
    • View Profile
    • Preventing another Big Tobacco
Re: THUG
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2014, 06:40:36 am »
It started creeping up on me. Then it took Kayne West to see it more clearly. Someone on twitter said this is Zimmerman's 3rd violent offense why isn't he called a thug by the media. I'm giving it one more year before I become a true believer. But for now I'm just going to keep tabs on teabillys.

President Television

  • Told You I
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 2113
  • Chupacabra of Internet Sex Crimes
    • View Profile
Re: THUG
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2014, 08:11:44 am »
It started creeping up on me. Then it took Kayne West to see it more clearly. Someone on twitter said this is Zimmerman's 3rd violent offense why isn't he called a thug by the media. I'm giving it one more year before I become a true believer. But for now I'm just going to keep tabs on teabillys.

I think you're correct about the teabaggers.
My shit list: Stephen Harper, anarchists that complain about taxes instead of institutionalized torture, those people walking, anyone who lets a single aspect of themselves define their entire personality, salesmen that don't smoke pipes, Fredericton New Brunswick, bigots, philosophy majors, my nemesis, pirates that don't do anything, criminals without class, sociopaths, narcissists, furries, juggalos, foes.

Faust

  • Tyrannical Overlord
  • Deserved It
  • *
  • Posts: 10365
  • The Greasy Strangler
    • View Profile
Re: THUG
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2014, 08:15:01 am »
Is thug short for Thuggee? I'd consider that a complement.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 15342
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: THUG
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2014, 08:19:59 am »
It's a word that I've noticed predominantly black hiphop culture has appropriated. It never used to be a black thing, it was just some wanker that solved every problem with a hammer. Now it means something about black people. Same way "gay" never used to be a sexuality issue.
I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it’s not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn’t matter." -- Max Tegmark

President Television

  • Told You I
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 2113
  • Chupacabra of Internet Sex Crimes
    • View Profile
Re: THUG
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2014, 08:30:45 am »
It's a word that I've noticed predominantly black hiphop culture has appropriated. It never used to be a black thing, it was just some wanker that solved every problem with a hammer. Now it means something about black people. Same way "gay" never used to be a sexuality issue.

I think it's like Alty said. It generally means what you said, and in the specific context of hip hop it means what Tupac said, and uninformed/intellectually dishonest racists have conflated the general definition with the specific context of black people and decided that there's a connection, if on no more than a rhetorical level. It's insidious.
My shit list: Stephen Harper, anarchists that complain about taxes instead of institutionalized torture, those people walking, anyone who lets a single aspect of themselves define their entire personality, salesmen that don't smoke pipes, Fredericton New Brunswick, bigots, philosophy majors, my nemesis, pirates that don't do anything, criminals without class, sociopaths, narcissists, furries, juggalos, foes.

Cain

  • Alea iacta est
  • Chekha
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 64289
    • View Profile
Re: THUG
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2014, 08:31:12 am »
It does seem to be used in a more racially loaded way in America.  In the UK, it's normally been used to refer to our own white underclass, "thugs and hooligans" or else foreign leaders who were our friends last week, but are not now (Saddam Hussein).

Junkenstein

  • Technically-Oriented & Horribly Mobile Crecy of Crab Lice.
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 8085
    • View Profile
Re: THUG
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2014, 08:48:41 am »
I'd have to agree with Cain there. Practically any UK media report about crime, particularly minor or common crimes, "thug" is a standard go to term.

I'd suspect the Daily Mail of possibly using the term in a more racially orientated way, but that's more a personal bias against the DM than actual fact.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.