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I Am Free

Started by POFP, March 29, 2014, 01:02:59 AM

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POFP

I don't say "please" and "thank you" because I feel obligated to do so. I don't do things for friends because "that's what friends are for." I don't spend my time around specific people because I'm inexplicably drawn to those people due to some unearthly force like "fate" or uncontrollable fondness. I don't do things for people and expect things in return. I don't expect anything from anyone.

Everything I do, I do because I made a will-full effort to do so, because I want to. To do favors, expecting something in return seems, to me, to be the definition of corruption. But so is doing someone harm and expecting to be forgiven. Or showing affection and expecting affection back.

I am your friend by choice, or your enemy by choice. I am nice and polite by choice, or I am a cunt by choice. Do not blame my surroundings for the decisions I choose to make. Do not take responsibility for my state or condition. I will hold myself accountable for my reality, and there's nothing you can do to stop me. I am Free.

"If consequences dictate course of action, then I should play God, and shoot you myself."
This Certified Pope™ reserves the Right to, on occasion, "be a complete dumbass", and otherwise ponder "idiotic" and/or "useless" ideas and other such "tomfoolery." [Aforementioned] are only responsible for the results of these actions and tendencies when they have had their addictive substance of choice for that day.

Being a Product of their Environment's Collective Order and Disorder, [Aforementioned] also reserves the Right to have their ideas, technologies, and otherwise all Intellectual Property stolen, re-purposed, and re-attributed at Will ONLY by other Certified Popes. Corporations, LLC's, and otherwise Capitalist-based organizations are NOT capable of being Certified Popes.

Battering Rams not included.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: PlightOfFernandoPoo on March 29, 2014, 01:02:59 AM
I don't say "please" and "thank you" because I feel obligated to do so. I don't do things for friends because "that's what friends are for." I don't spend my time around specific people because I'm inexplicably drawn to those people due to some unearthly force like "fate" or uncontrollable fondness. I don't do things for people and expect things in return. I don't expect anything from anyone.

Everything I do, I do because I made a will-full effort to do so, because I want to. To do favors, expecting something in return seems, to me, to be the definition of corruption. But so is doing someone harm and expecting to be forgiven. Or showing affection and expecting affection back.

I am your friend by choice, or your enemy by choice. I am nice and polite by choice, or I am a cunt by choice. Do not blame my surroundings for the decisions I choose to make. Do not take responsibility for my state or condition. I will hold myself accountable for my reality, and there's nothing you can do to stop me. I am Free.

"If consequences dictate course of action, then I should play God, and shoot you myself."

That's kinda bleak.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

POFP

And I thought myself an optimist. Care to expand? A possible negative connotation to this would interest me greatly. I imagine it's the reason why others disagree with me.
This Certified Pope™ reserves the Right to, on occasion, "be a complete dumbass", and otherwise ponder "idiotic" and/or "useless" ideas and other such "tomfoolery." [Aforementioned] are only responsible for the results of these actions and tendencies when they have had their addictive substance of choice for that day.

Being a Product of their Environment's Collective Order and Disorder, [Aforementioned] also reserves the Right to have their ideas, technologies, and otherwise all Intellectual Property stolen, re-purposed, and re-attributed at Will ONLY by other Certified Popes. Corporations, LLC's, and otherwise Capitalist-based organizations are NOT capable of being Certified Popes.

Battering Rams not included.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Yeah, fuck society and social influences. Each of us is who he is purely by virtue of free will and self-determination. We are rugged individualists, and we rely on no one but ourselves.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


POFP

Quote from: Nigel on March 29, 2014, 04:48:05 PM
Yeah, fuck society and social influences. Each of us is who he is purely by virtue of free will and self-determination. We are rugged individualists, and we rely on no one but ourselves.

I never took it quite that far in my head. I guess that would be one of those out-of-reach goals to be achieved at or near the end of my life. Obviously I owe a lot of things to how I was brought up and the the environment I've been in my whole life. But I would like to eventually be seen as "purely me."
This Certified Pope™ reserves the Right to, on occasion, "be a complete dumbass", and otherwise ponder "idiotic" and/or "useless" ideas and other such "tomfoolery." [Aforementioned] are only responsible for the results of these actions and tendencies when they have had their addictive substance of choice for that day.

Being a Product of their Environment's Collective Order and Disorder, [Aforementioned] also reserves the Right to have their ideas, technologies, and otherwise all Intellectual Property stolen, re-purposed, and re-attributed at Will ONLY by other Certified Popes. Corporations, LLC's, and otherwise Capitalist-based organizations are NOT capable of being Certified Popes.

Battering Rams not included.

The Johnny

In psychoanalysis theress a saying: infancy is destiny.

Mileage might vary, but still...
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

POFP

Quote from: The Johnny on March 29, 2014, 05:40:11 PM
In psychoanalysis theress a saying: infancy is destiny.

Mileage might vary, but still...

You bring up an interesting point. Maybe I've been reading too much Crowley without my "critical-thinking cap" on. Must mean I have my "outrageously douchy douchebag cap" on. I mean, only douchebags describe mindsets with "caps."  :lulz:

I'll think about it all some more.
This Certified Pope™ reserves the Right to, on occasion, "be a complete dumbass", and otherwise ponder "idiotic" and/or "useless" ideas and other such "tomfoolery." [Aforementioned] are only responsible for the results of these actions and tendencies when they have had their addictive substance of choice for that day.

Being a Product of their Environment's Collective Order and Disorder, [Aforementioned] also reserves the Right to have their ideas, technologies, and otherwise all Intellectual Property stolen, re-purposed, and re-attributed at Will ONLY by other Certified Popes. Corporations, LLC's, and otherwise Capitalist-based organizations are NOT capable of being Certified Popes.

Battering Rams not included.

Salty

Why do we brush our hair or use deoderant?

Why do we wear clothes that are not 100% purely functional?

What do you mean by pure? Where does "me" come from? Where does it reside?
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: PlightOfFernandoPoo on March 29, 2014, 05:03:54 AM
And I thought myself an optimist. Care to expand? A possible negative connotation to this would interest me greatly. I imagine it's the reason why others disagree with me.

If there's nobody you're tied to by duty, obligation, or other social constraints, then you aren't "free", you're "a hermit".

There is a subtle but very real difference, which can usually be detected by which person has any friends by age 40 or so.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: PlightOfFernandoPoo on March 29, 2014, 06:08:04 PM

Maybe I've been reading too much Crowley

Whoops, never mind.  I'll just see my way out.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

POFP

Quote from: Alty on March 29, 2014, 11:59:08 PM
Why do we brush our hair or use deoderant?

Why do we wear clothes that are not 100% purely functional?

What do you mean by pure? Where does "me" come from? Where does it reside?

Again, too much Crowley. I've been thinking a lot about "The Magick Will," apparently, without realizing until earlier.

It appears to me that we do those things because of societal influences, as Nigel pointed out.

I would like to think that I reside in my consciousness, which appears to come from the brain, which is influenced by an infinite number of things, including genetic hard-wiring, environmental or conditioned predispositions, etc.. Where things go beyond that is mostly occult. Some say hivemind, some say soul, some say we're dreaming. I have no fucking clue, that's why I'm soaking up shit like this so easily. I want an answer that makes sense, and every time someone convinces me theirs makes sense, it's hard as fuck to see anything else. Answers that make sense make it hard to ask questions. That's why I come to people like you, to get my skepticism back. I need to stop losing it. Thanks all! :D

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 30, 2014, 12:08:04 AM
Quote from: PlightOfFernandoPoo on March 29, 2014, 05:03:54 AM
And I thought myself an optimist. Care to expand? A possible negative connotation to this would interest me greatly. I imagine it's the reason why others disagree with me.

If there's nobody you're tied to by duty, obligation, or other social constraints, then you aren't "free", you're "a hermit".

There is a subtle but very real difference, which can usually be detected by which person has any friends by age 40 or so.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 30, 2014, 12:08:45 AM
Quote from: PlightOfFernandoPoo on March 29, 2014, 06:08:04 PM

Maybe I've been reading too much Crowley

Whoops, never mind.  I'll just see my way out.

Now, now, you do bring up a point. One I touched on in the "Rugged Individualism" thread. But, I would like to point out, that the way I see it, there is Freedom in disregard of obligation or societal constraint. But, I do see the argument that acting on "pure" will is, in a sense, a form of slavery. Maybe that's where the balance you spoke of in the "Rugged Individualism" thread comes into play?

Separating being a "hermit" from being "free," brings me to semantics. What if you were a hermit by will, and didn't need other people to live the rest of your life (Not even trying to say I would be ok with being completely alone and away from people. I love being around people. And, if it weren't for other people throughout my life, I would be dead.)? But then again, with that logic, one could argue that one is freely choosing to be influenced by society and their environment.

Fuck me, back where I started again. This ALWAYS happens.
This Certified Pope™ reserves the Right to, on occasion, "be a complete dumbass", and otherwise ponder "idiotic" and/or "useless" ideas and other such "tomfoolery." [Aforementioned] are only responsible for the results of these actions and tendencies when they have had their addictive substance of choice for that day.

Being a Product of their Environment's Collective Order and Disorder, [Aforementioned] also reserves the Right to have their ideas, technologies, and otherwise all Intellectual Property stolen, re-purposed, and re-attributed at Will ONLY by other Certified Popes. Corporations, LLC's, and otherwise Capitalist-based organizations are NOT capable of being Certified Popes.

Battering Rams not included.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: PlightOfFernandoPoo on March 30, 2014, 12:27:52 AM
Now, now, you do bring up a point. One I touched on in the "Rugged Individualism" thread. But, I would like to point out, that the way I see it, there is Freedom in disregard of obligation or societal constraint.

If you view isolation as freedom, I suppose.

But Crowley, so while I don't mean to be rude, I am leaving this thread.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

POFP

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 30, 2014, 12:29:11 AM
Quote from: PlightOfFernandoPoo on March 30, 2014, 12:27:52 AM
Now, now, you do bring up a point. One I touched on in the "Rugged Individualism" thread. But, I would like to point out, that the way I see it, there is Freedom in disregard of obligation or societal constraint.

If you view isolation as freedom, I suppose.

But Crowley, so while I don't mean to be rude, I am leaving this thread.

Haha, fair enough.
This Certified Pope™ reserves the Right to, on occasion, "be a complete dumbass", and otherwise ponder "idiotic" and/or "useless" ideas and other such "tomfoolery." [Aforementioned] are only responsible for the results of these actions and tendencies when they have had their addictive substance of choice for that day.

Being a Product of their Environment's Collective Order and Disorder, [Aforementioned] also reserves the Right to have their ideas, technologies, and otherwise all Intellectual Property stolen, re-purposed, and re-attributed at Will ONLY by other Certified Popes. Corporations, LLC's, and otherwise Capitalist-based organizations are NOT capable of being Certified Popes.

Battering Rams not included.

The Johnny

Being free is always a metaphor, because we are always bound to something.

Being free from the contraints of reality is called schizophrenia or psychosis, and is that true freedom or is it an avoidance?
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

POFP

Quote from: The Johnny on March 30, 2014, 12:50:55 AM
Being free is always a metaphor, because we are always bound to something.

Being free from the constraints of reality is called schizophrenia or psychosis, and is that true freedom or is it an avoidance?

That could only be answered on an individual basis (Am I still around, consciously, after I die?) or by occultist dogmas. Currently, I have to remain agnostic on that question, because I want nothing to do with either at the moment.

Sad to say I was hoping for mind-body separation, but it's looking less and less likely/optimistic  :horrormirth:

I want to be bound to SOMETHING, as you put it. But I want to choose what that SOMETHING is, without outside influence. Then comes the question, is that possible? Fuckin looks like a no, from here  :cry:
This Certified Pope™ reserves the Right to, on occasion, "be a complete dumbass", and otherwise ponder "idiotic" and/or "useless" ideas and other such "tomfoolery." [Aforementioned] are only responsible for the results of these actions and tendencies when they have had their addictive substance of choice for that day.

Being a Product of their Environment's Collective Order and Disorder, [Aforementioned] also reserves the Right to have their ideas, technologies, and otherwise all Intellectual Property stolen, re-purposed, and re-attributed at Will ONLY by other Certified Popes. Corporations, LLC's, and otherwise Capitalist-based organizations are NOT capable of being Certified Popes.

Battering Rams not included.