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Icons of Hate

Started by The Good Reverend Roger, April 08, 2014, 02:54:18 AM

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The Good Reverend Roger

First up, Fred Wertham:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredric_Wertham

This man single-handedly killed an entire art form, to the point where it had nothing to say for 50 years.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

Can I play?  I've got a great one.

The Good Reverend Roger

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Faust

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2014, 02:54:18 AM
First up, Fred Wertham:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredric_Wertham

This man single-handedly killed an entire art form, to the point where it had nothing to say for 50 years.

Though no longer a thing the comics code is still having it's wretched effect on the comics industry, even in the mindset of comic book readers. They expect certain content from their shitty superhero books and are horrified by anything outside of that.

It's a fossil, a warped sense of morality that doesn't make the least bit of sense.

In the first issue of the new catwoman series she has sex with someone she is attracted to. There is an upper torso no nudity shot but that didn't stop parents from complaining in stores or online about the damage it could do their children reading it.

In issue one of Batman which came out the same month it shows the joker graphically having his face removed with a box cutter and of course no one complained about.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

The Good Reverend Roger

Thing is, Wertham was to the art world what RWHN is to intoxicants:  A weedy nerd who thought he knew better than the parents of the children he was obsessing over.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

Chick Corea.

This man made it his life's work to ruin three, I repeat, three kinds of music-- and he succeeded.

This is the guy that decided it would be a great idea to graft jazz, rock and roll, and latin american music together in a hideous, Frankenstonian Cerebus of a genre called "Jazz Fusion". 

So awful was his power that he was able to convice Miles Davis that this was a good idea.  Granted, Miles was on a lot of heroin at the time, but still...

What's worse is that this is directly responsible for the abject horror we know as "soft jazz".  And because of that, RWHN.

I want to go back in time and crush this man's fingers with a 10-pound hammer.

MMIX

Quote from: Faust on April 08, 2014, 02:14:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2014, 02:54:18 AM
First up, Fred Wertham:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredric_Wertham

This man single-handedly killed an entire art form, to the point where it had nothing to say for 50 years.

Though no longer a thing the comics code is still having it's wretched effect on the comics industry, even in the mindset of comic book readers. They expect certain content from their shitty superhero books and are horrified by anything outside of that.

It's a fossil, a warped sense of morality that doesn't make the least bit of sense.

In the first issue of the new catwoman series she has sex with someone she is attracted to. There is an upper torso no nudity shot but that didn't stop parents from complaining in stores or online about the damage it could do their children reading it.

In issue one of Batman which came out the same month it shows the joker graphically having his face removed with a box cutter and of course no one complained about.

I suspect Wertham would have complained about it.
QuoteMy main interest is not in comic books or even mass media, but in children and young people. Over the years I have been director of large mental hygiene clinics... And I have done a great deal of work - sometimes with great difficulty - to prevent young people from being sent to reformatories where they are often very badly treated. I have also helped a number of young people so they were not sent to the electric chair.
  Seeing that so many immature people have troubles and get into trouble, I tried to find out all the sources that contributed to their difficulties. In the course of that work I came across crime comic books.
  I had nothing whatever to do directly with the comics code. Nor have I ever endorsed it. Nor do I believe in it. My scientific findings had something to do with it only because the crime comic book publishers, some of them multi-millionaires, were afraid laws or statutes would be passed against their worst productions. To guard against that the code was established.
  Controlling the excess of brutality in crime comic books has nothing to do with censorship. Protecting children is not censorship. I was the first American psychiatrist admitted in a Federal Court in a book censorship case - and I testified against  censorship.
Fredric Wertham early 70's. http://art-bin.com/art/awertham.html
"The ultimate hidden truth of the world is that it is something we make and could just as easily make differently" David Graeber

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: MMIX on April 08, 2014, 03:20:56 PM

  Controlling the excess of brutality in crime comic books has nothing to do with censorship. Protecting children is not censorship.

This sounds really familiar.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 08, 2014, 02:17:17 PM
Chick Corea.

This man made it his life's work to ruin three, I repeat, three kinds of music-- and he succeeded.

This is the guy that decided it would be a great idea to graft jazz, rock and roll, and latin american music together in a hideous, Frankenstonian Cerebus of a genre called "Jazz Fusion". 

So awful was his power that he was able to convice Miles Davis that this was a good idea.  Granted, Miles was on a lot of heroin at the time, but still...

What's worse is that this is directly responsible for the abject horror we know as "soft jazz".  And because of that, RWHN.

I want to go back in time and crush this man's fingers with a 10-pound hammer.

You had me at "smooth jazz".
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

MMIX

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2014, 03:26:33 PM
Quote from: MMIX on April 08, 2014, 03:20:56 PM

  Controlling the excess of brutality in crime comic books has nothing to do with censorship. Protecting children is not censorship.

This sounds really familiar.

Yeah, I thought that was a really equivocal point too. At what point does providing age appropriate material degenerate into over-protecting children and censoring materials willy-nilly?
"The ultimate hidden truth of the world is that it is something we make and could just as easily make differently" David Graeber

Faust

Quote from: MMIX on April 08, 2014, 03:38:36 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2014, 03:26:33 PM
Quote from: MMIX on April 08, 2014, 03:20:56 PM

  Controlling the excess of brutality in crime comic books has nothing to do with censorship. Protecting children is not censorship.

This sounds really familiar.

Yeah, I thought that was a really equivocal point too. At what point does providing age appropriate material degenerate into over-protecting children and censoring materials willy-nilly?

Just as the consequences of dropping an atomic bomb on Japan gave rise to Anime, Wetham's comic code gave rise to the silver age of comics. Something he must never be forgiven for.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Faust on April 08, 2014, 03:46:10 PM
Quote from: MMIX on April 08, 2014, 03:38:36 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2014, 03:26:33 PM
Quote from: MMIX on April 08, 2014, 03:20:56 PM

  Controlling the excess of brutality in crime comic books has nothing to do with censorship. Protecting children is not censorship.

This sounds really familiar.

Yeah, I thought that was a really equivocal point too. At what point does providing age appropriate material degenerate into over-protecting children and censoring materials willy-nilly?

Just as the consequences of dropping an atomic bomb on Japan gave rise to Anime, Wetham's comic code gave rise to the silver age of comics. Something he must never be forgiven for.

This.  The whole artform went from thought-provoking, original stuff to Mayberry.  For that alone, I wish to shit on Wertham's grave.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mangrove

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on April 08, 2014, 02:17:17 PM
Chick Corea.

This man made it his life's work to ruin three, I repeat, three kinds of music-- and he succeeded.

This is the guy that decided it would be a great idea to graft jazz, rock and roll, and latin american music together in a hideous, Frankenstonian Cerebus of a genre called "Jazz Fusion". 

So awful was his power that he was able to convice Miles Davis that this was a good idea.  Granted, Miles was on a lot of heroin at the time, but still...

What's worse is that this is directly responsible for the abject horror we know as "soft jazz".  And because of that, RWHN.

I want to go back in time and crush this man's fingers with a 10-pound hammer.

I'm a little uncertain about your chronology here...lol....

During the 1960s, the middle aged Miles Davis was facing a potential career crisis. Jazz was beginning it's decline in popularity, Miles wanted to be 'cutting edge' but did not want to join in with the 'New Thing' (aka Free or Avant Garde jazz). So, he opted initially for a middle ground by bringing in a bunch of younger players (Hancock, Shorter, Carter & Williams) who could play all the mainstream jazz material (blues, ballads & standard songs) but had an ear to the kinds of things going on with Ornette Coleman, Coltrane quartet etc. (Snarky side note is that Wynton Marsalis states that at this point, Miles had peaked technically and basically wasn't up to the music that his younger cohorts were capable of playing)

Having gone as far with that as he could, Miles was looking for something new, especially if it carried a larger paycheck. He really liked James Brown, Sly Stone and Jimi Hendrix...(note that he liked Jimi but not the rest of the Experience who he thought were terrible.) Add that to a massive amount of cocaine, the fact that music companies were giving him free electric pianos and that Miles was fucking younger women who were into rock & R&B and HEY PRESTO....FUSION was born. It's when Miles' hair started to recede and he gave up wearing Brooks Brothers suits in favor of bell bottoms, massive sunglasses and stuff with tassels. 

Everyone who had a career in 'fusion' went through Miles' band first:

Herbie Hancock ---> Headhunters
Joe Zawinul, Wayne Shorter ---> Weather Report
Chic Corea ---> Return To Forever
John McLaughlin ---> Mahavishnu Orchestra
Tony Williams ---> Lifetime
George Benson ---> gave up straight jazz in favor of making pop & soul records.


All of these people had established careers playing acoustic jazz, then they played with Miles in the 60s/70s following the gradual dissolution of the 2nd quintet. After their time in Miles' band they all went and made fusion records of their own. Miles made his pianists play the Fender Rhodes. People like Hancock actually liked technology so he rolled with it. Keith Jarrett on the other hand thought it was godawful, hated playing it and the music he did with Miles, but he just wanted to be around him. Unlike the others, he did not make a fusion record but went back to his regular piano and that weird, squeaky, scat singing noise that he makes when he plays.

So, I contend that Mr Corea did not invent fusion. Miles Davis having a mid-life crisis created fusion.

I don't know who to blame for 'smooth jazz' but I don't think that can be laid at Mr Corea's door. What he does need a bitch slapping for however, is his insistence that his being a big old Scientologist has negatively impacted his opportunities as a performer. Uhh....Hollywood much?

Should you get that time travel thing working, to prevent the existence of fusion, you'd have to check Miles into rehab, get him to date women his own age and explain that he can't ask Columbia records for huge salary raises just because he wants them.





What makes it so? Making it so is what makes it so.

The Good Reverend Roger

How the hell did Herbie Hancock turn out so fucking cool if he started in Jazz?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Luna

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on April 08, 2014, 03:26:33 PM
Quote from: MMIX on April 08, 2014, 03:20:56 PM

  Controlling the excess of brutality in crime comic books has nothing to do with censorship. Protecting children is not censorship.

This sounds really familiar.

Back when I worked at the comic book store, it was my job to do a fast skim through the new comics every week do a check for boobs and dicks.  Those got bagged and displayed on the top rack, and not sold to kids.  (Clear bags, with an occasional sticker placed as needed.). Beyond that, if a parent felt the need to monitor a kid's reading habits, they were welcome to shop with them.  The Catwoman panel wouldn't have rated a bag.

I was more concerned with keeping an eye on the perverts hanging around the little girls shopping for Sailor Moon stuff.
Death-dealing hormone freak of deliciousness
Pagan-Stomping Valkyrie of the Interbutts™
Rampaging Slayer of Shit-Fountain Habitues

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake, and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

Quote from: The Payne on November 16, 2011, 07:08:55 PM
If Luna was a furry, she'd sex humans and scream "BEASTIALITY!" at the top of her lungs at inopportune times.

Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
I like the Luna one. She is a good one.

Quote
"Stop talking to yourself.  You don't like you any better than anyone else who knows you."