PUA reaction/info/derailment thread

[axod]

Yeah, I get where you're coming from now. It's chicken and egg, I guess. Popular misinformation or misinterpretation meme informs actors who mimic tropes and behaviours thereby reinforcing the meme.

Vicious circle that's been spinning since I first heard about it back the 80's or 90's or whatever.

It's a hard skin to shed.  Come to think, also very insidious how it interfaces with the amygdala.  It's like putting on your favorite well-worn snake boots.  Gets hard to tear those suckers off again.

I'm kinda out of that psychological influence loop nowadays but I'm not most of the population. The annoying thing is that, despite the fact that it's based on a false premise, it's still a model that can be employed to get results. For a given definition of "results". It doesn't have to be founded in reality to work at some other level of abstraction.

It's like that.  At this point the best antidote is just to make fun of the whole thing.  Do the twizler NLP, tell them what it's about.  Occasionally, it's even endearing to see people not even know they're trying to treat me like an object.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

All it takes is one self styled "alpha", and a room full of self styled "betas", most of whom buy into the theory. Doesn't matter how valid the theory is or isn't, if everyone believes it, it informs the narrative.

You used some psychology buzzwords! Good job.

Do you really think there is, anywhere outside of a PUA meetup, "a room full of betas" who are aware of/buy into that idiocy?

[P3nT4gR4m]

All it takes is one self styled "alpha", and a room full of self styled "betas", most of whom buy into the theory. Doesn't matter how valid the theory is or isn't, if everyone believes it, it informs the narrative.

You used some psychology buzzwords! Good job.

Didn't realise academia had an IP claim. Next time I'll torrent it 

Do you really think there is, anywhere outside of a PUA meetup, "a room full of betas" who are aware of/buy into that idiocy?

Some areas of the business sector, maybe but not as a broad demographic. Wasn't this thread about PUA's or something?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

All it takes is one self styled "alpha", and a room full of self styled "betas", most of whom buy into the theory. Doesn't matter how valid the theory is or isn't, if everyone believes it, it informs the narrative.

You used some psychology buzzwords! Good job.

Didn't realise academia had an IP claim. Next time I'll torrent it 

Do you really think there is, anywhere outside of a PUA meetup, "a room full of betas" who are aware of/buy into that idiocy?

Some areas of the business sector, maybe but not as a broad demographic. Wasn't this thread about PUA's or something?

By the same token, something that can be kinda looked at that way has permeated vast swathes of our social psychology or whatever correct terminology applies to "the way things work between humans" I don't think the alpha wolves science guys instigated the effect. I think there were probably guys who fit the description of "alpha", existent in societies a long time before all that shenanigans.

Maybe the fact that the wolves were thrown into an unnatural grouping of complete strangers is indicative of the kind of group dynamics that can develop in the interactions of some mammals when exposed to this - room full of strangers - scenario?

Oh, were you back to just talking about PUAs?

[P3nT4gR4m]

You honestly saying that the idea of "alphas" is never heard outside PUA meetings? I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to be arguing at this point. It's a mindset. Some people conform to it. Ask a random person what an alpha is and you're as likely to get a story about wolves or silverbacks or some shit. I'm not saying it's not ill informed but I was under the impression it's a fairly common misconception.

So is it ridiculous to imagine that some non-pua guys might get it in their heads they'll be an alpha when they grow up? Is it within the realms of possibility that other, less assertive guys, upon encountering these self styled alphas will respond according to how they think betas should behave.

Think of a sales staff, not all of them, just this one and they self organise into proect teams. So Alpha-guy joins the crew and most of the office takes one look and thinks "wank" but a couple of the geeky ones buy into his buzzcut and 6-pack and tales of unlimited poontang and follow him around like wolf cubs. My contention is that if they've all bought into the story about the wolves, they'll act that shit out.

[Junkenstein]

All it takes is one self styled "alpha", and a room full of self styled "betas", most of whom buy into the theory. Doesn't matter how valid the theory is or isn't, if everyone believes it, it informs the narrative.

You used some psychology buzzwords! Good job.

Do you really think there is, anywhere outside of a PUA meetup, "a room full of betas" who are aware of/buy into that idiocy?

4Chan(hell, most chans), Reddit, BBC comments section, anywhere people can type stupid things into the internet.

I'd guess if you asked people "What is an Alpha Male" they'd probably respond relating it to human behavior in 75%+ of cases. I'll ask the next couple of dozen people I see out of curiosity but I'm fairly confident. If anyone else cares to test that it could be somewhat informative.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

What's funny is, by the definition these yahoos use, I am a beta.

I do nice things for my wife because I like it when my wife is happy.  Not because it gets me anything, but her being happy makes ME happy.  For it's own sake.

What's funny is, that also got me everything *I* wanted, without being a shitneck.  No domination, no manipulation.  The very essence of a "beta".  And I'm okay with that, because I'm happy and the "alphas" spend all day wondering why their strategy isn't panning out like it should.

Because if you think about it, what is the prize for being a "successful" alpha?  Oh, yeah.  A series of one night stands that gets more and more pathetic as time goes by and their hairlines recede.

[P3nT4gR4m]

No arguments there. I simply don't involve myself in the pschodrama. Something about conforming to an intellectual model based on a type of dog didn't appeal. Go figure. 

[Reginald Ret]

Plus a lot of that behavior is just your basic young-person-broadcasting-for-a-mate behavior, irrespective of social status. PUA types seem to have confused "normal youthful social interactions" with "dominance behavior", which is so hilariously wrong I don't even know where to start. It implies that if you are participating in group social interactions, you're "alpha", and that "alphas" travel in packs, which literally makes zero sense.

This is a ridiculous concept and anyone who believes it should try to herd some alpha wolves.

"Hey I'm loud and I laugh loud and I talk loud and LOOK AT MEEEEE!!!"

"I am self-consciously callous and mildly sociopathic.  This obviously qualifies me to mate."

I honestly think that the reason young people are so loud is mostly because it's a way for them to broadcast their location to one another, increasing the likelihood of finding a mate.

This makes a lot of sense. I think many so called complex human issues have a simple answer like this.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What's funny is, by the definition these yahoos use, I am a beta.

I do nice things for my wife because I like it when my wife is happy.  Not because it gets me anything, but her being happy makes ME happy.  For it's own sake.

What's funny is, that also got me everything *I* wanted, without being a shitneck.  No domination, no manipulation.  The very essence of a "beta".  And I'm okay with that, because I'm happy and the "alphas" spend all day wondering why their strategy isn't panning out like it should.

Because if you think about it, what is the prize for being a "successful" alpha?  Oh, yeah.  A series of one night stands that gets more and more pathetic as time goes by and their hairlines recede.

Bingo.

I think that key to their failure is the fact that they've conflated dominance and social skills in the first place. They can't find mates because they can't relate to other people, period. It's really sad, and is probably a true disability.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

All it takes is one self styled "alpha", and a room full of self styled "betas", most of whom buy into the theory. Doesn't matter how valid the theory is or isn't, if everyone believes it, it informs the narrative.

You used some psychology buzzwords! Good job.

Do you really think there is, anywhere outside of a PUA meetup, "a room full of betas" who are aware of/buy into that idiocy?

4Chan(hell, most chans), Reddit, BBC comments section, anywhere people can type stupid things into the internet.

I'd guess if you asked people "What is an Alpha Male" they'd probably respond relating it to human behavior in 75%+ of cases. I'll ask the next couple of dozen people I see out of curiosity but I'm fairly confident. If anyone else cares to test that it could be somewhat informative.

Oh, I didn't realize the Internet was a room. I beg your pardon.

[Junkenstein]

Sorry, you need actual real world places where men go and talk nonsense about shit they don't know? Well, that sounds like every bar, pub or club I've ever had the misfortune to pass through. It may not have been this exact language but the overall meaning is pretty much the same. I'd put money I don't have on it being updated over the years.

More than a few workplaces as well, now that I think on it. Pretty much anywhere people can communicate, I reckon that rough percentage will stand.

I did also say that I'd ask the next few people I meet this question. Perhaps you'd consider doing the same?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

All it takes is one self styled "alpha", and a room full of self styled "betas", most of whom buy into the theory. Doesn't matter how valid the theory is or isn't, if everyone believes it, it informs the narrative.

You used some psychology buzzwords! Good job.

Do you really think there is, anywhere outside of a PUA meetup, "a room full of betas" who are aware of/buy into that idiocy?

4Chan(hell, most chans), Reddit, BBC comments section, anywhere people can type stupid things into the internet.

I'd guess if you asked people "What is an Alpha Male" they'd probably respond relating it to human behavior in 75%+ of cases. I'll ask the next couple of dozen people I see out of curiosity but I'm fairly confident. If anyone else cares to test that it could be somewhat informative.

Oh, I didn't realize the Internet was a room. I beg your pardon.

It is a collection of tubes.

In a room.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Sorry, you need actual real world places where men go and talk nonsense about shit they don't know? Well, that sounds like every bar, pub or club I've ever had the misfortune to pass through. It may not have been this exact language but the overall meaning is pretty much the same. I'd put money I don't have on it being updated over the years.

More than a few workplaces as well, now that I think on it. Pretty much anywhere people can communicate, I reckon that rough percentage will stand.

I did also say that I'd ask the next few people I meet this question. Perhaps you'd consider doing the same?

Words. They mean something.

Do you really think there is, anywhere outside of a PUA meetup, "a room full of betas" who are aware of/buy into that idiocy?

If you find a room full of people who identify themselves as betas, congratulations, you are in a PUA meeting.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Sorry, you need actual real world places where men go and talk nonsense about shit they don't know? Well, that sounds like every bar, pub or club I've ever had the misfortune to pass through. It may not have been this exact language but the overall meaning is pretty much the same. I'd put money I don't have on it being updated over the years.

More than a few workplaces as well, now that I think on it. Pretty much anywhere people can communicate, I reckon that rough percentage will stand.

I did also say that I'd ask the next few people I meet this question. Perhaps you'd consider doing the same?

Words. They mean something.

Do you really think there is, anywhere outside of a PUA meetup, "a room full of betas" who are aware of/buy into that idiocy?

If you find a room full of people who identify themselves as betas, congratulations, you are in a PUA meeting.

Or a Huxley novel.