Art and Bad People

[Faust]

I once wrote an essay about the hypocrisy of people denying that "Lolita" was satirical.

I'd like to read that. Lolita is only satirical on the surface though, we're looking from humberts perspective and he is an unreliable narrator who downplays his involvement in her abuse.

At best he is what he portrays himself as, a bumbling humbert. But we only have his word for it.
At worst he's a man who murdered his wife to take up a sexual relationship with a child.

There's a lot of situational comedy and satire, but that is the narrators defense.

[Cain]

MJ is a poignant example because I see him as kind of a Frankenstein's Monster. We created him and we eventually had to destroy him en mass with torches and pitchforks. This has been the nature of celebrity for thousands of years.

Celebrities are Holy, that's why we rip out their hearts and send their severed heads bouncing down the steps of Chichén Itzá.

This in particular made me associate with some book of Mircea Eliade... I dont know the direct translation but i think its "sacred vs. profane", in which whatever is rare or strange over the course of history has either been brought up, or brought down but never has a neutral reaction.

Example 1: Cats either have been worshipped as god's companion (Egypt et al) or have been thought of as THE devil's companion (witches).

Example 2: Schizophrenics have been thouhgt of as either being the medium thru which gods speak, or possessed by teh demons.

And what is an artist after all? Some strange minion that is either put in an altar or demonized depending on the person that is subjected to them... artists are the lightning rods for the masses sentiment, or their altar, or their punching bag...

I had to look it up, that looks like a really interesting book! http://www.amazon.com/The-Sacred-Profane-Nature-Religion/dp/015679201X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402958096&sr=8-1&keywords=eliade

He was an interesting man.  And quite apt, given the topic.  Eliade was known for his admiration of the Iron Guard and Romanian far-right in general.  He also basically defined how religion was studied in the 20th century. 

His student, the extraordinarily talented Ioan P. Culianu, was also an interesting man, though certainly less controversial, and well worth reading too (I have a copy of Eros and Magic in the Renaissance on my bookshelf next to me).  The matter of his death is also much cause for speculation.

[hooplala]

I feel the same way when I listen to MJ. If some asshat is going to lecture me about listening him. I'm going to shit in that person's mouth for liking John Lennon. Fuck him til the ends of the earth.

Rah!

[minuspace]

I once wrote an essay about the hypocrisy of people denying that "Lolita" was satirical.

I'd like to read that. Lolita is only satirical on the surface though, we're looking from humberts perspective and he is an unreliable narrator who downplays his involvement in her abuse.

At best he is what he portrays himself as, a bumbling humbert. But we only have his word for it.
At worst he's a man who murdered his wife to take up a sexual relationship with a child.

There's a lot of situational comedy and satire, but that is the narrators defense.

Yea, I don't think those papers made it into this millennium.  More or less, I illustrated a few situational anecdotes: true, superficially, to set the stage.  Then, the contentious part, was to implicate the reader as an accomplice.  In order for the story to have any credence or import whatsoever, per force, you must identify with the "unreliable narrator who downplays his involvement in her abuse".  I thought that was funny as hell given how vehemently judgmental it gets people

[Junkenstein]

Hmm.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=36621.0

Seems a relevant empirical test. I seem to recall something negative about this chap recently and can't recall what. I do remember it being "Fuck that guy" worthy levels, will try and find it to add required context.

ETA - Crudely pasted context which I can't be arsed making look nice. You do it.

Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 23, 2014, 05:35:47 pm
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 23, 2014, 01:17:31 pm
Quote from: All-Father Nigel on May 23, 2014, 04:33:12 am
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 23, 2014, 01:50:59 am
Apparently, Adam Gorightly is Adam GoRIGHTly.

https://www.facebook.com/adam.gorightly/posts/10202980233000687?comment_id=10202980276641778&offset=0&total_comments=7&notif_t=share_reply

Women in congress? SELL THEM INTO SLAVERY.

Shit, what?? I got a page not found on that.

Weird.  Works for me on both computers.  It should be on his wall.

Basically, Adam is saying that any women congressmen who expressed an interest in the Boko Harum women should be traded for those women, on account of women congressmen are WHORES.  The a pack of his new teabagger buddies comes on and yuks it up with him.

I called him on it, he was serious.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Junkenstein, all you have to do to make a quote readable is hit quote on the post and copy/paste that.

[Junkenstein]

Yeah, but it was badly done and I can't be arsed fixing it.

Edit - Typo. Yes, I'll fix a typo but not a fucked up quote.

[Reginald Ret]

Hmm.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=36621.0

Seems a relevant empirical test. I seem to recall something negative about this chap recently and can't recall what. I do remember it being "Fuck that guy" worthy levels, will try and find it to add required context.

ETA - Crudely pasted context which I can't be arsed making look nice. You do it.

Apparently, Adam Gorightly is Adam GoRIGHTly.

https://www.facebook.com/adam.gorightly/posts/10202980233000687?comment_id=10202980276641778&offset=0&total_comments=7&notif_t=share_reply

Women in congress? SELL THEM INTO SLAVERY.

Shit, what?? I got a page not found on that.

Weird.  Works for me on both computers.  It should be on his wall.

Basically, Adam is saying that any women congressmen who expressed an interest in the Boko Harum women should be traded for those women, on account of women congressmen are WHORES.  The a pack of his new teabagger buddies comes on and yuks it up with him.

I called him on it, he was serious.

Yeah, but it was badly done and I can't be arsed fixing it.

Edit - Typo. Yes, I'll fix a typo but not a fucked up quote.

There you go, you lazy fucker.
I had to guess how to split up the quotes among the quotees but i think i got it right, i vaguely remember reading this but can't be arsed to find it.

Yes, I'll manually type quote function code but won't google a phrase.

Edit: Gah! fucked it up.

[Reginald Ret]

You know, this thread shrunk by 66% while the quality improved by 200% after i blocked UB.
That means UB's posts contain almost nothing of value and merely dilute the signal thereby reducing the enjoyment per minute spent reading.
I strongly endorse this home-improvement technique.

[PopeTom]

I would think that consuming art by bad people would eventually boil down to if you want to give some horrible person your money or not.  This tempered by, as mentioned earlier, the fact that in our day to day lives we probably already give a lot of horrible people our monies when we purchase our food, clothing, electronics, and probably damn near everything we own and did not create ourselves.

Though there are times when a person's horrible actions do manage to totally ruin something they have created as in this example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi7ds7Lmmrk

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

I forgot about this thread. I could have spewed my Marion Zimmer Bradley mini-rant here. Maybe. Urk.

I am learning so many horrible things about people I never thought twice or first about (because I didn't know who they were) and Jesus fuck, isn't there one decent creative person out there who isn't a flaming fuckwit?

[Cain]

Elton John, David Bowie and Bruce Forsyth may be the only British celebrities from the 1970s who are not in fact pedophiles.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I forgot about this thread. I could have spewed my Marion Zimmer Bradley mini-rant here. Maybe. Urk.

I am learning so many horrible things about people I never thought twice or first about (because I didn't know who they were) and Jesus fuck, isn't there one decent creative person out there who isn't a flaming fuckwit?

In my experience, extremely creative people are also usually deeply troubled. Not always in a way that is so profoundly repellent to human kindness and decency, but I have definitely noticed that many creative people walk an edge that is a tad too close to excepting themselves from socially accepted ideas of morality.

[Cain]

A lot of artists also seem to (uncritically) accept the role of transgression in creativity too, which can sometimes lead them onto...questionable paths, especially if they are already quite troubled people.

[Junkenstein]

Elton John, David Bowie and Bruce Forsyth may be the only British celebrities from the 1970s who are not in fact pedophiles.

I wouldn't be too confident about Bruce.