Author Topic: The Death of the Vampire Trope  (Read 14574 times)

Faust

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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2014, 10:19:37 am »
With regards to The Walking Dead, you indeed have not missed much.

Once the zombie threat becomes understood, there is nothing much where a story can go from there...except to rebuild civilization.  And that's just a bunch of messy "just-so" stories based around the prejudices and politics of the author.  Which is frequently boring.


I will say that the disparity between the walking dead TV show and comics couldn't be larger. It can be summed up that the TV show is about heroic characters with a show that focusses on Zombies.

While the Walking dead Comics have very little to do with zombies, instead it is the focus on a group of broken people who continue to lose what little humanity they have left.

The TV show squanders every emotional growth the comic gives them because they have to keep Rick as an identifiable paragon of manliness.

I don't want to go into it too much, all I can do is recommend the comic (and tell tale games) as a great character drama.

For those watching the TV show here is a big example; After the prisoner and the governor arc, the group come across a more "green" set of survivors, they are so mistrustful they don't even try to communicate with them, they just immediately butcher them in case they were a threat. Everything like this is whitewashed away for the show.

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Cain

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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2014, 11:32:46 am »
I have heard the comics are very worthwhile, sadly I have little time to get into them as is.  I have seen some of the games being played, and they certainly seem superior, throwing in real moral dilemmas where it's very possible to screw up and call it wrong.

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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2014, 09:52:19 pm »
I was wondering whether these tropes constitute a form brainwashing  Although I consciously relate to the zombie as a metaphor, I subconsciously might be admitting the "double-tap" as a reasonable way to deal with whatever zombies represent.  The metaphor leaves a kind of dehumanizing residue.  Zombies are less human than vampires, so the resultant trope is stronger?

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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2014, 06:08:06 am »
Excellent analysis. I think I need to re-watch Blade.
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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2014, 08:18:41 am »
I was wondering whether these tropes constitute a form brainwashing  Although I consciously relate to the zombie as a metaphor, I subconsciously might be admitting the "double-tap" as a reasonable way to deal with whatever zombies represent.  The metaphor leaves a kind of dehumanizing residue.  Zombies are less human than vampires, so the resultant trope is stronger?

Ever heard of groups like "zombie squad"? Basically, you have groups of modern survivalist preppers who use the thinly veiled trope of the zombie to basically represent a stand-in for riotous, unarmed looters that tend to crop up in disaster scenarios.
In more extreme cases, ive even seen "zombie preppers" justify themselves by saying stuff like "zombies = niggers. Of course we dont believe in a real zombie apocalypse" (naturally, NOT on ZS's official forums, but in more ephemeral places where zombie survival gets discussed).

So yeah...it definitely allows people to dehumanise others. Maybe not as some sort of "woo evil brainwashing", but certainly in the form of it being co-opted and sold as something innocuous when it really isnt.

But yeah...all sorts of fucked up shit hides itself in the zombie "movement".

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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2014, 09:11:32 am »
Yeah, I've seen the same stuff.  More undertone than explicit, but there's a fair bit of it.

Of course, the idea that zombies are a metaphor for the great, irrational masses is hardly a new one, or that vampires are a metaphor for Jews/aristocrats/bankers (depending on the prejudices of the particular author.  Stoker was fairly anti-Semitic, maybe not by the standards of his time, but certainly by the standards of our time.  And to go back to The Strain, the Stoneheart Group, a New York based financial somethingorother arranged for the transport of the Master into the USA).

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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2014, 12:15:01 pm »
I was wondering whether these tropes constitute a form brainwashing  Although I consciously relate to the zombie as a metaphor, I subconsciously might be admitting the "double-tap" as a reasonable way to deal with whatever zombies represent.  The metaphor leaves a kind of dehumanizing residue.  Zombies are less human than vampires, so the resultant trope is stronger?

Ever heard of groups like "zombie squad"? Basically, you have groups of modern survivalist preppers who use the thinly veiled trope of the zombie to basically represent a stand-in for riotous, unarmed looters that tend to crop up in disaster scenarios.
In more extreme cases, ive even seen "zombie preppers" justify themselves by saying stuff like "zombies = niggers. Of course we dont believe in a real zombie apocalypse" (naturally, NOT on ZS's official forums, but in more ephemeral places where zombie survival gets discussed).

So yeah...it definitely allows people to dehumanise others. Maybe not as some sort of "woo evil brainwashing", but certainly in the form of it being co-opted and sold as something innocuous when it really isnt.

But yeah...all sorts of fucked up shit hides itself in the zombie "movement".

That's why every time a kid tries to buy Guns 'N Amo, the vendor should slip them a Penthouse instead (worked for me) 8)

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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2014, 12:22:26 pm »
...

  And to go back to The Strain, the Stoneheart Group, a New York based financial somethingorother arranged for the transport of the Master into the USA).

There was something about that.  The First that came to mind was Firestone...

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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2014, 02:57:31 pm »
I was wondering whether these tropes constitute a form brainwashing  Although I consciously relate to the zombie as a metaphor, I subconsciously might be admitting the "double-tap" as a reasonable way to deal with whatever zombies represent.  The metaphor leaves a kind of dehumanizing residue.  Zombies are less human than vampires, so the resultant trope is stronger?

Ever heard of groups like "zombie squad"? Basically, you have groups of modern survivalist preppers who use the thinly veiled trope of the zombie to basically represent a stand-in for riotous, unarmed looters that tend to crop up in disaster scenarios.
In more extreme cases, ive even seen "zombie preppers" justify themselves by saying stuff like "zombies = niggers. Of course we dont believe in a real zombie apocalypse" (naturally, NOT on ZS's official forums, but in more ephemeral places where zombie survival gets discussed).

So yeah...it definitely allows people to dehumanise others. Maybe not as some sort of "woo evil brainwashing", but certainly in the form of it being co-opted and sold as something innocuous when it really isnt.

But yeah...all sorts of fucked up shit hides itself in the zombie "movement".

That's why every time a kid tries to buy Guns 'N Amo, the vendor should slip them a Penthouse instead (worked for me) 8)

Kids still buy print media?
I mean, this newfangled internet thing lets me learn about firearms AND have all the content of nudie mags just the same...

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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2014, 03:22:00 pm »
Kids still buy print media?
I mean, this newfangled internet thing lets me learn about firearms AND have all the content of nudie mags just the same...
The kids that don't have their own phone/computer/tablet do.
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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2014, 10:04:24 pm »
Kids still buy print media?
I mean, this newfangled internet thing lets me learn about firearms AND have all the content of nudie mags just the same...
The kids that don't have their own phone/computer/tablet do.
And it's not like google has any trouble re-pointing things.

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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2014, 12:52:22 am »
With regards to The Walking Dead, you indeed have not missed much.

Once the zombie threat becomes understood, there is nothing much where a story can go from there...except to rebuild civilization.  And that's just a bunch of messy "just-so" stories based around the prejudices and politics of the author.  Which is frequently boring.

Faust is right, there did seem to be an embargo on the fanged fiends while Twilight was popular...no doubt due to commitment to sparkle-motion.  I've not seen The Vampire Diaries, but it is apparently quite popular, as well as True Blood, both of which did overlap the Twilight era, but mostly distanced themselves from it in both obvious and subtle ways.

Funny thing is, it's the "just-so" element that terrifies me the most.  Instead of being an artificial device, it faithfully represents how mindlessly we incorporate the bulshit being peddled to explain how we got here.

BadBeast is right, humans are very scary indeed.

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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2014, 03:23:24 am »
Wonderful post, BB. 

I haven't really been keeping up with a lot of these series, but my interest is piquéd.

I HAVE been watching True Blood recently and, while at times soap operaish, it still hold my interest.  While the vampire trope is there, it takes on the 'rules' of the old World of Darkness RPG.  That alone, takes an interesting take on the genre.  Breaking the trope down into clans allows for a pretty easy meta commentary about the humans (true monsters).

As far as the zombie trope goes, I thought a really good perspective was David Wong's This Book is Full of Spiders.  Wong brings that line between humans and zombies to a nice parallel and throws in a bit of commentary along the way. 

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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2014, 09:19:47 pm »
"Crossed WYWH" finished this week, and while The Crossed don't fit all the parameters of the Zombie trope,
 the best story arcs of the franchise concentrate on the survivors, who very much DO fit. In this respect, writers Si Spurrier, and (franchise owner) Garth Ennis have written the only arcs that I'd really recommend to anyone. David Lapham has his moments, but he doesn't seem to rise above the rape / gore aspect of Crossed, which probably sells more comics, but doesn't really explore any new ground.

I've always thought the most interesting aspect of any horror story is the way ordinary people react to the extreme situations presented. While all the best stories of whatever genre seem to have redemption as their theme, good horror also examines how easily previously "good" people succumb to the most unspeakable acts of evil.

Frankenstein exemplifies and defines the "Monster" trope perfectly. It's not Frankenstein's monster that descends into evil or morally ambiguous behavior, it's  Dr Frankenstein himself, and the people around him that are the real monsters. 
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Re: The Death of the Vampire Trope
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2014, 11:33:01 pm »
I tried Crossed, just don't think I landed on the right episodes.

Kind of related, debutant feature by writer/director/producer/actor, The Battery, not bad.

About monsters, I agree, and think that goes back to definition as chimera.