Author Topic: Laws  (Read 6060 times)

LMNO

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Re: Laws
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2014, 01:42:40 pm »

This process (80% of the stuff lawyers do) is about to get automated by deep learning systems which can do the job infinitely faster and an order of magnitude more accurately.


:cn:

Doktor Howl

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Re: Laws
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2014, 02:07:05 pm »
Dunno how accurate the info I had was but there was a figure in a doc I watched that about 80% of legal work was "discovery" which is not talking your ass off in court, winning over the jury but poring over documents, accounts, email and shit like that trying to build a case.

This process (80% of the stuff lawyers do) is about to get automated by deep learning systems which can do the job infinitely faster and an order of magnitude more accurately.

100% of lawyers with 20% stuff left to do should be interesting. I'm not thinking techno unemployment (That's call-center staff and burger chefs) more a case of less backlog. What's going to happen to the legal system once the backlog is reduced by 80%?

The lawyers will lobby for even more laws.  Many of them will instead go into politics.

America:  Shoot a programmer today.

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Re: Laws
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2014, 02:22:33 pm »

This process (80% of the stuff lawyers do) is about to get automated by deep learning systems which can do the job infinitely faster and an order of magnitude more accurately.


:cn:

Like I said, I'm not sure if that 80% thing is accurate. The e-discovery thing is tried and tested database software that's now getting hooked into cognitive systems Like IBM Watson

If you haven't heard of Cognitive yet then here's my tip - It's going to make the information revolution of the last four or five decades look like nothing significant really happened during that period.
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Re: Laws
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2014, 02:25:58 pm »
Dunno how accurate the info I had was but there was a figure in a doc I watched that about 80% of legal work was "discovery" which is not talking your ass off in court, winning over the jury but poring over documents, accounts, email and shit like that trying to build a case.

This process (80% of the stuff lawyers do) is about to get automated by deep learning systems which can do the job infinitely faster and an order of magnitude more accurately.

100% of lawyers with 20% stuff left to do should be interesting. I'm not thinking techno unemployment (That's call-center staff and burger chefs) more a case of less backlog. What's going to happen to the legal system once the backlog is reduced by 80%?

The lawyers will lobby for even more laws.  Many of them will instead go into politics.

America:  Shoot a programmer today.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the School to Prison Pipeline you guys have going on over there. You could be approaching "peak-prison" where you can't build them fast enough. What happens then? Escape from New York?
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walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and its not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesnt matter." -- Max Tegmark

Doktor Howl

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Re: Laws
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2014, 03:07:40 pm »
Dunno how accurate the info I had was but there was a figure in a doc I watched that about 80% of legal work was "discovery" which is not talking your ass off in court, winning over the jury but poring over documents, accounts, email and shit like that trying to build a case.

This process (80% of the stuff lawyers do) is about to get automated by deep learning systems which can do the job infinitely faster and an order of magnitude more accurately.

100% of lawyers with 20% stuff left to do should be interesting. I'm not thinking techno unemployment (That's call-center staff and burger chefs) more a case of less backlog. What's going to happen to the legal system once the backlog is reduced by 80%?

The lawyers will lobby for even more laws.  Many of them will instead go into politics.

America:  Shoot a programmer today.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the School to Prison Pipeline you guys have going on over there. You could be approaching "peak-prison" where you can't build them fast enough. What happens then? Escape from New York?

We joke about guard towers along the coast.  Nobody really thinks it's funny, though.

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Re: Laws
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2014, 03:12:53 pm »
Dunno how accurate the info I had was but there was a figure in a doc I watched that about 80% of legal work was "discovery" which is not talking your ass off in court, winning over the jury but poring over documents, accounts, email and shit like that trying to build a case.

This process (80% of the stuff lawyers do) is about to get automated by deep learning systems which can do the job infinitely faster and an order of magnitude more accurately.

100% of lawyers with 20% stuff left to do should be interesting. I'm not thinking techno unemployment (That's call-center staff and burger chefs) more a case of less backlog. What's going to happen to the legal system once the backlog is reduced by 80%?

The lawyers will lobby for even more laws.  Many of them will instead go into politics.

America:  Shoot a programmer today.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the School to Prison Pipeline you guys have going on over there. You could be approaching "peak-prison" where you can't build them fast enough. What happens then? Escape from New York?

That trend has slowed down, with the consequence that prisons are emptying  out and the private prison industry is in deep financial trouble.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


QueenThera

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Re: Laws
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2014, 11:43:57 pm »
Dunno how accurate the info I had was but there was a figure in a doc I watched that about 80% of legal work was "discovery" which is not talking your ass off in court, winning over the jury but poring over documents, accounts, email and shit like that trying to build a case.

This process (80% of the stuff lawyers do) is about to get automated by deep learning systems which can do the job infinitely faster and an order of magnitude more accurately.

100% of lawyers with 20% stuff left to do should be interesting. I'm not thinking techno unemployment (That's call-center staff and burger chefs) more a case of less backlog. What's going to happen to the legal system once the backlog is reduced by 80%?

The lawyers will lobby for even more laws.  Many of them will instead go into politics.

America:  Shoot a programmer today.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the School to Prison Pipeline you guys have going on over there. You could be approaching "peak-prison" where you can't build them fast enough. What happens then? Escape from New York?

That trend has slowed down, with the consequence that prisons are emptying  out and the private prison industry is in deep financial trouble.
This sounds lovely. Maybe then we could run prisons Oz-style.

...not that TV show. I mean OZ.

Quote from: The Patchwork Girl of Oz
"We consider a prisoner unfortunate. He is unfortunate in two ways because he has done something wrong and because he is deprived of his liberty. Therefore we should treat him kindly, because of his misfortune, for otherwise he would become hard and bitter and would not be sorry he had done wrong. Ozma thinks that one who has committed a fault did so because he was not strong and brave; therefore she puts him in prison to make him strong and brave. When that is accomplished he is no longer a prisoner, but a good and loyal citizen and everyone is glad that he is now strong enough to resist doing wrong. You see, it is kindness that makes one strong and brave; and so we are kind to our prisoners."

But then, I'm relentlessly idealistic when I'm not relentlessly cynical.
Often incoherent. Tends to ramble on about various topics.
Hopes to get beyond that.

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Re: Laws
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2014, 02:31:59 am »
Dunno how accurate the info I had was but there was a figure in a doc I watched that about 80% of legal work was "discovery" which is not talking your ass off in court, winning over the jury but poring over documents, accounts, email and shit like that trying to build a case.

This process (80% of the stuff lawyers do) is about to get automated by deep learning systems which can do the job infinitely faster and an order of magnitude more accurately.

100% of lawyers with 20% stuff left to do should be interesting. I'm not thinking techno unemployment (That's call-center staff and burger chefs) more a case of less backlog. What's going to happen to the legal system once the backlog is reduced by 80%?

The lawyers will lobby for even more laws.  Many of them will instead go into politics.

America:  Shoot a programmer today.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the School to Prison Pipeline you guys have going on over there. You could be approaching "peak-prison" where you can't build them fast enough. What happens then? Escape from New York?

That trend has slowed down, with the consequence that prisons are emptying  out and the private prison industry is in deep financial trouble.
This sounds lovely. Maybe then we could run prisons Oz-style.

...not that TV show. I mean OZ.

Quote from: The Patchwork Girl of Oz
"We consider a prisoner unfortunate. He is unfortunate in two ways because he has done something wrong and because he is deprived of his liberty. Therefore we should treat him kindly, because of his misfortune, for otherwise he would become hard and bitter and would not be sorry he had done wrong. Ozma thinks that one who has committed a fault did so because he was not strong and brave; therefore she puts him in prison to make him strong and brave. When that is accomplished he is no longer a prisoner, but a good and loyal citizen and everyone is glad that he is now strong enough to resist doing wrong. You see, it is kindness that makes one strong and brave; and so we are kind to our prisoners."

But then, I'm relentlessly idealistic when I'm not relentlessly cynical.

That would be very nice, but it would require people to consider long-term systemic consequences and not merely the hollow satisfaction of punishment.

However, speaking of punishment, maybe people who commit crimes should be forced to watch endless episodes of Dr. Oz.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


LMNO

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Re: Laws
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2014, 11:14:30 am »
I'm pretty sure that's banned under the Geneva Convention.

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Re: Laws
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2014, 03:15:18 pm »
I'm pretty sure that's banned under the Geneva Convention.

It is pretty inhumane. I'm not sure what I was thinking there, I must have had a momentary lapse in human decency.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


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Re: Laws
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2014, 09:36:03 pm »
Speaking of emptying prisons:
The dutch prisons are so ridiculously empty that several have closed already and we are now importing Norwegian prisoners.
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-norway-to-rent-dutch-prisons-to-cut-convict-queue-2014-9

Quote
The Netherlands' prison population stood at 11,160 at the end of 2012, and has been falling continuously since 2008, according to the Dutch prison service.


That is about 66 per 100 000 and dropping, it seems to me that this plan should work fine, the prison systems are very similar.

I think it would be fair to say that being in Dutch (or Norwegian) prison is like living with your mom. In theory it is nice to have everything taken care of but in practice you just want to GET OUT. It has the added benefit of a long-term improvement in the relationship with the authority figure. Rehabilitation Through Smothering, it works!
I got this hilarious image stuck in my head of a bad ass long-term criminal whining "But mom! I don't want to go to bed! I wanna read my comics!" "And the warden saying "No. You need your sleep and that is final. And turn your playstation off as well!" "But mom! I haven't saved the game yet!" etc. etc.
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Re: Laws
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2014, 10:47:19 pm »
Actual rehabilitation instead of just punishment? And it's WORKING???

Go figure.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


Doktor Howl

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Re: Laws
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2014, 11:53:02 pm »
Actual rehabilitation instead of just punishment? And it's WORKING???

Go figure.

Soft on crime.

von

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Re: Laws
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2014, 10:37:47 pm »
On the plus side, it's not just the cops who can cover themselves in cameras. Pretty soon we'll all be walking around in a cloud of personal drones. The balance of surveillance power swings back and forward but it's nearer the middle now than it's ever been. The bad guys will begin deploying EMP's in riot zones to try and combat this. Someone will start selling cheap Faraday-cage phone cases on ebay to get around it.

The government used to have a comms and tech advantage. That's gone. Playing field is leveled. I've been thinking a lot about what the word "Terrorism" currently means, after years of systematic abuse by the thought police. Best definition I can come up with is "enemy combatant who we can't defeat using our traditional strategy of overwhelming military force"

When tanks and guns aren't effective weapons anymore, all they're left with is information systems. Good luck winning that war would be oppressors - you're outmanned and outgunned. "Cyberterrorists" will win the info-wars and hopefully that will be the end of centralised government.
They will be illegal to own just like kevlar bodyarmor. "Only terrists and bankrobbers need them"

They already exist and from what I'm seeing, they look to be just double-thick ESD bags. Fairly cheap too...5-15 dollars depending on retailer.

As for body armour, that lies in a sticky ground too. Sure, kevlar and ceramics may not be aquirable by certain peoples, but steel armour is quite viable, and many companies (example: AR500) sell "anti-spalling steel targets" that conveniently fit in a plate carrier and also happen to be tested to NIJ level III.

So it comes down to how to even make faraday cage bags or body armour illegal...I mean, when does an ESD bag used to ship PC components become a "terrorist anti-EMP device", or when does a piece of sheet metal with a zamak coating become "body armour"?



von

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Re: Laws
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2014, 10:44:10 pm »
I'm looking at the end result - total 100% transparency. The problems come in the interim. Anything less than 100%, even by half of a half of 1%, creates a nightmare oligarchy of centralised power. The road to that last % may be long and arduous. Billions may die or become fucked over to the point most of them will wish they were dead. What I think is worth exploring at this point in history, is ways to force engineer that last %, as and when it becomes necessary.

I'm not arguing for or against total transparency. There's no point. It's coming whether you think this is a good thing or a bad thing. Until we hit 100% it has the potential to become progressively worse. Near term I'm not optimistic, based on the current state of humanity in general. It's a big change. Humanity needs to change dramatically to accommodate. Humanity, y'know - 7-odd billion retarded primates who fear nothing more than change. :kingmeh:

Total, two-way transparency will, in my opinion, require sousveillance...which means that those retarded primates will not acheive full two-way transparency for centuries. It's a voluntary, logical process...just like quitting smoking, or running a home aquaponics system for self sustaining food supplies, or using email run through a home email server to communicate rather than social media. In other words, shit that's too complex for the general population of retarded primates.

I would hazard that it will remain one-way surveillance for a long time on the grand scale...at least past our own lifetimes. That's grim...