PD, plz advise. Satire device broken

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Then why not write an article about that? Because few people would read it. It wouldnt generate controversy. Maybe you could get the most virulent /r/theredpill idiot to be stupid about it, but the majority of people would agree with it.  Do you really think that if this was an article about sexual assaults in public bathrooms anyone in this thread would deny this was a problem? This article isnt about that, its about a sign being taken down in a bar. Its stupid, on purpose. That makes it controversial which creates more ad clicks. But that controversy doesnt help, it doesnt facilitate discussion, its just a chance for people to fling shit at each other. Articles like these make things worse. It doesnt matter what "side" of the issue they take or even what issue it is.

I'm actually starting to wonder whether you actually read the article. It was a straightforward account of the events, journalism-school style. It's not on a clickbait site, it's on a local news site.

[Demolition Squid]

Hey, people can say whatever the fuck they want.

They have no reasonable right to expect me to give them my money regardless if it pisses me off - or for me not to point out if I feel it is unacceptable.

Freedom of speech means that I get to call you out for being an insensitive jackass just as much as it gives you the right to be an insensitive jackass.

My point was more that going 'lol why do these people care when there are so many other things they could deal with' is a false choice. There's no reason you can't do both - and in fact, pointing out the little issues is a lot more possible to do over lunch than say, addressing the massive wage gap between men and women.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Hey, people can say whatever the fuck they want.

They have no reasonable right to expect me to give them my money regardless if it pisses me off - or for me not to point out if I feel it is unacceptable.

Freedom of speech means that I get to call you out for being an insensitive jackass just as much as it gives you the right to be an insensitive jackass.

My point was more that going 'lol why do these people care when there are so many other things they could deal with' is a false choice. There's no reason you can't do both - and in fact, pointing out the little issues is a lot more possible to do over lunch than say, addressing the massive wage gap between men and women.

Right?

My city's local papers have spent months dissecting the minutiae of a case in which a bakery refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding. I could see some random outsiders looking at the story and saying "How is this even news? It's just one shop, and since gays already know they're going to be discriminated against anyway it's basically meaningless."

[Reginald Ret]

Patton Oswalt's essay on rape jokes might be appropriate to insert here:

http://www.pattonoswalt.com/index.cfm?id=167&page=spew

It's the third part, so you'll have to scroll down.

Good read, thanks.

I keep forgetting the intensity and pervasiveness of this and other similar bad elements in human culture.
I will try to remember.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Patton Oswalt's essay on rape jokes might be appropriate to insert here:

http://www.pattonoswalt.com/index.cfm?id=167&page=spew

It's the third part, so you'll have to scroll down.

Good read, thanks.

I keep forgetting the intensity and pervasiveness of this and other similar bad elements in human culture.
I will try to remember.

Thanks

It's some tricky shit, because when you're surrounded by something all the time it tends to become invisible.

[Ben Shapiro]

Hey, people can say whatever the fuck they want.

They have no reasonable right to expect me to give them my money regardless if it pisses me off - or for me not to point out if I feel it is unacceptable.

Freedom of speech means that I get to call you out for being an insensitive jackass just as much as it gives you the right to be an insensitive jackass.

My point was more that going 'lol why do these people care when there are so many other things they could deal with' is a false choice. There's no reason you can't do both - and in fact, pointing out the little issues is a lot more possible to do over lunch than say, addressing the massive wage gap between men and women.

I like you.Sup baby I'm fresh.

[Reginald Ret]

Well shit, I didn't know that was actually a common thing.
I'm used to seeing separate washrooms, not just separate stalls.
I'll have to ask some local women if this is a thing to fear here as well.

Most bathrooms here are separate, but creepers sneak in and lurk in a stall until an unsuspecting woman comes in so they can get their jollies listening to her pee.

I actually am less worried about it in gender-neutral bathrooms.

Housemate (female) says:
I have no personal experience with men bothering women in public bathrooms.
I have heard no stories from friends about this happening.
HAHAHAHAHAHA those men are pathetic.
When I really have to pee I have no problem with going into the men`s room.
(Statements translated by me)

I'm glad at least one woman has never experienced this.
I will ask more.

Nigel, what sample size is big enough to make statements about relative occurrence?
I don't know how common it is in your environment.

[Reginald Ret]

Patton Oswalt's essay on rape jokes might be appropriate to insert here:

http://www.pattonoswalt.com/index.cfm?id=167&page=spew

It's the third part, so you'll have to scroll down.

Good read, thanks.

I keep forgetting the intensity and pervasiveness of this and other similar bad elements in human culture.
I will try to remember.

Thanks

It's some tricky shit, because when you're surrounded by something all the time it tends to become invisible.

Yep, also: As a member of the gender that is not a victim of this behaviour the visibilty is lower.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Well shit, I didn't know that was actually a common thing.
I'm used to seeing separate washrooms, not just separate stalls.
I'll have to ask some local women if this is a thing to fear here as well.

Most bathrooms here are separate, but creepers sneak in and lurk in a stall until an unsuspecting woman comes in so they can get their jollies listening to her pee.

I actually am less worried about it in gender-neutral bathrooms.

Housemate (female) says:
I have no personal experience with men bothering women in public bathrooms.
I have heard no stories from friends about this happening.
HAHAHAHAHAHA those men are pathetic.
When I really have to pee I have no problem with going into the men`s room.
(Statements translated by me)

I'm glad at least one woman has never experienced this.
I will ask more.

Nigel, what sample size is big enough to make statements about relative occurrence?
I don't know how common it is in your environment.

I'm not sure what actual occurrence rates of being perved on in the bathroom stands to prove in this conversation (what kind of frequency would it take to be a concerning possibility?) but you could probably start with a search on rape and sexual assault statistics and see what other teased-out data you can find.

A quick search resulted in a number of news stories about sexual assaults occurring in public bathrooms, and a number of other news stories discussing the controversy over unisex/trans-friendly public bathrooms -- neither of which are especially useful for answering your question.

On the subject of unisex bathrooms, I have been thinking about it and I suspect that the likelihood of being peeped/assaulted n a unisex bathroom are probably quite a bit lower than in a women-only bathroom, because both of those crimes rely on the combination of isolation and the vulnerability of the female victim, and a unisex bathroom would theoretically not only have twice the traffic, but half that traffic would be males, the vast majority of whom could reasonably be assumed to come to the assistance of a woman who was being assaulted, and are more likely to be respond with violence toward the perpetrator.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

TBH I am having a hard time even grasping that I need to explain that rape/assault/other creepery is a common worry for women using public restrooms.

Would you have a hard time believing that men also deal with being peeped/assaulted by other men in shared public restrooms? Because they do. It may be less threatening for them when it occurs (I don't know if it is) but it happens. Probably with enough frequency that in most cases a reasonable person would hesitate to put a joke sign depicting a man staring at another guy's junk above the urinals.

[Reginald Ret]

TBH I am having a hard time even grasping that I need to explain that rape/assault/other creepery is a common worry for women using public restrooms.

Would you have a hard time believing that men also deal with being peeped/assaulted by other men in shared public restrooms? Because they do. It may be less threatening for them when it occurs (I don't know if it is) but it happens. Probably with enough frequency that in most cases a reasonable person would hesitate to put a joke sign depicting a man staring at another guy's junk above the urinals.

No need to explain, I know it is an issue.
I think I did that thing again where I assume people can read my mind and I failed to communicate effectively.

I'm only curious to see if it is less common here, because if we can identify where it is less common then maybe we can find out why. Knowing why would be a step towards a solution.

I can confirm that peeping among men happens, and occasionally that makes men feel afraid and insecure.
If said joke sign would be above urinals it is a prime target for vandalism, thereby becoming a public forum for discussion of the subject. In that way it is very dissimilar from a sign on the outside of the washrooms, it is something that can be rebelled against by simply following primal urges. Maybe that is part of what is messed up about the situation in the restaurant: The signs are something done to the public, instead of something shaped by the public.
I would still laugh at such a junk-staring sign though, but that is because I am a bad person. It would definitely create some interesting dynamics in public washrooms. I predict much macho posturing including threats of violence.

On the subject of unisex bathrooms, I concur. Maybe it is a good idea to have unisex as a third bathroom option? Or fourth, counting the wheelchair bathrooms.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

It looks like statistics will be hard to come by, as no doubt many voyeurs are never discovered, let alone caught and prosecuted... which also means that the women/men they spy on never know they're being watched. Makes it a little hard to track.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-27020063