Author Topic: The Repopulation has a surprisingly realistic crafting system for a sci-fi RPG  (Read 2657 times)

Reginald Ret

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I've recently started playing a MMORPG with an insanely detailed crafting system.
It gets pretty close to reality in interesting ways.
The intertwinement of the crafting skill-specialisations forces real specialisation and interdependence between friends who play together.
I think I can explain it best with a couple examples.

Say you want Ethanol(chemistry skill), you will need Ethylene, Carbonic Acid, and Distilled Water.
For Ethylene you will use the foraging skill, and need Samr berries and distilled water.
For Carbonic Acid you will use the Fishing skill, and need Salty Porphira (a type of fish) and any heat source(wood, fat, oil, etc. this will be consumed).
For Distilled Water you will use the Chemistry skill, and use Contaminated Water and any heat source.
Ethanol can be used as both a heat source and to create Ethyl Acetate (you also need Acetic Acid and Distilled Water).
Ethyl Acetate can be used to make Barium Fluoride (you also need Hydrofluoric Acid, Barium Chloride, and Distilled Water).
Barium Fluoride can be used to make Anhydrous Barium Fluoride (you also need Silica(Mining skill) and Chemical Salt(Fishing skill)).
Now, since Barium Chloride is a Glass you can combine it with Silica Optical Fibers(Hacking skill, Any Electrode Plate, Copper Wires(Metalworking skill), and Any Bonding Agent to create a Small Light Bulb!

... OK, now what? Now you need a Refined Iron Bar, some Fine Iron Oxide, and Copper Wires as well: Congratulations you made a Standing LightA!

No? You don't want a lamp?

What about a Genetically Engineered Feral Venom Drake?
You will need 3 specific DNA samples, Biomass, Ligase and a Stabilized Prion Vector. Of course you can craft the last three yourself, you just need:
Any Tissue Sample and Any Sterilizing Agent for Biomass;
Any Fish Meat and Any Buffer Solution for Ligase;
Diseased Brain Tisue, Any Extoparasite, and Any Sterilizing Agent for Stabilized Prion Vector.

Or would you like to build a HyperCycle or Light Mech? Or maybe a robotic tank? A Disguise? Cybernetic Implants? Adrenaline Injection? Motion Detection Traps? Battle Axe? Wooden Bar Stool?

Here's the crafting map I used to look these up: http://aena.at/craftmap/
It's not completely up to date, more stuff has been added in game.
It is still in Alpha so quite buggy and crashy, but the crafting alone makes the game worthwhile.
My name is Regret and I'm on the EU server. Don't skip the introduction area, this game takes some time to learn, in fact AFAIK you never stop learning.
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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Never heard of using a prion vector for recombinant DNA, how would that even work?

It's interestingly detailed, it just seems to have some of the details wrong.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


The Wizard Joseph

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Sounds like fun! Kind of messes with me that you could wind up in a scenario where you're fishing so you can make enough carbonic acid to finish your cyberware or something.
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Reginald Ret

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Never heard of using a prion vector for recombinant DNA, how would that even work?

It's interestingly detailed, it just seems to have some of the details wrong.
I have no idea, but it is definitely not possible to even consider that now. I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibility though, not likely but... possible.
I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they mean any protein that alters similar proteins to be exact copies of itself when they say prion, not just the disease-causing ones. It is likelier that viral agents would be used IMHO.
I chalk that one up to it being science-fiction. Hmm, this could cause some confusion if kids take this game too literally. Oh well, some confusion is good for people.

I just spent some time reading up about Prions, I had read about them before but I don't have any deep knowledge.
I hadn't heard that the most likeley prion replication mechanism is fibrils breaking off, interesting.

You know what is more amazing? Not a single spelling  error in the entire game for as far as I have seen. Even the players only make speed-related typing errors, and even then only rarely.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Never heard of using a prion vector for recombinant DNA, how would that even work?

It's interestingly detailed, it just seems to have some of the details wrong.
I have no idea, but it is definitely not possible to even consider that now. I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibility though, not likely but... possible.
I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they mean any protein that alters similar proteins to be exact copies of itself when they say prion, not just the disease-causing ones. It is likelier that viral agents would be used IMHO.
I chalk that one up to it being science-fiction. Hmm, this could cause some confusion if kids take this game too literally. Oh well, some confusion is good for people.

I just spent some time reading up about Prions, I had read about them before but I don't have any deep knowledge.
I hadn't heard that the most likeley prion replication mechanism is fibrils breaking off, interesting.

You know what is more amazing? Not a single spelling  error in the entire game for as far as I have seen. Even the players only make speed-related typing errors, and even then only rarely.

The lack of spelling errors is amazing.

The prion vector thing is going to continue to bother me, though. :lol: You can't use a misfolded protein to insert a sequence into DNA, that doesn't even make sense.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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The part about needing ethylene and carbonic acid to make ethanol is also mysterious. Maybe all of them are, on purpose, and those are the only two I know enough about to recognize it.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Cain

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Could be a balance issue or something.

Regret, are most of the crafting items dual use?  In other words, do you have to make tradeoffs between using carbonic acid for ethanol and for something else?

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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For ethanol, in real life, you would typically need a carbohydrate source, water, yeast, a fermentation vessel, and distilling equipment.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Junkenstein

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Could be a balance issue or something.

Regret, are most of the crafting items dual use?  In other words, do you have to make tradeoffs between using carbonic acid for ethanol and for something else?

From a quick look I'd guess near enough everything will have dual/triple/X potential uses which will inevitably lead to hilarious balance issues and broken economy. I admire the attempted scale but I can't see it being much beyond a broken mess quite quickly. There's a certain mindset that will enjoy crafting every part of their lamp but given the time investment that seems required here you could probably learn how to do that shit in real life.

They're also quite non-committal on future monetisation plans beyond "must be done,somehow". That's going to be one to watch because whatever gets implemented will probably fuck a bunch of other things up again. Which should be moderately amusing. Probably not on the dungeon keeper mobile/mechwarrior online levels but a chuckle nonetheless.


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Reginald Ret

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Never heard of using a prion vector for recombinant DNA, how would that even work?

It's interestingly detailed, it just seems to have some of the details wrong.
I have no idea, but it is definitely not possible to even consider that now. I don't think it is completely out of the realm of possibility though, not likely but... possible.
I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they mean any protein that alters similar proteins to be exact copies of itself when they say prion, not just the disease-causing ones. It is likelier that viral agents would be used IMHO.
I chalk that one up to it being science-fiction. Hmm, this could cause some confusion if kids take this game too literally. Oh well, some confusion is good for people.

I just spent some time reading up about Prions, I had read about them before but I don't have any deep knowledge.
I hadn't heard that the most likeley prion replication mechanism is fibrils breaking off, interesting.

You know what is more amazing? Not a single spelling  error in the entire game for as far as I have seen. Even the players only make speed-related typing errors, and even then only rarely.

The lack of spelling errors is amazing.

The prion vector thing is going to continue to bother me, though. :lol: You can't use a misfolded protein to insert a sequence into DNA, that doesn't even make sense.
I was thinking of using prions as part of an attempt to influence epigenetics. Though you are quite right, they have no method of genetic alteration in there. Huh, i hadn't even noticed in my enthousiasm.

The part about needing ethylene and carbonic acid to make ethanol is also mysterious. Maybe all of them are, on purpose, and those are the only two I know enough about to recognize it.
Creating ethanol without yeast should be possible, (looking up if i've remembered this right...) Ethylene would be the starting point jst add an acid catalyst in a high pressure steam chamber. It looks like they are using the wrong acid though, phosphoric acid is more commonly used.
I've looked at the other skill-tree that seems relevant: Culinary arts. There are 5 different forms of alcohol there, rum, vodka, moonshine, and pure distilled alcohol (not craftable, needs to be bought). I think they are making a distinction between ethanol suited for human consumption and industrial ethanol, the first differentiating factor that springs to mind is impurities. The industrial byproduct Isopropyl alcohol is about 1,5 times as deadly as methanol.

It would be hilarious if they are doing everything subtly wrong no purpose though.

Could be a balance issue or something.

Regret, are most of the crafting items dual use?  In other words, do you have to make tradeoffs between using carbonic acid for ethanol and for something else?
Yeah, most of them are even poly-use, there is nothing linear about it.
Carbonic acid is used in 21 recipes, of which 1 is a failed chemical (I think they put those bad recipes in there to fuck with people.) and 8 are for different types of batteries, so effectively 13 different crafting uses. I regularly see 60+ uses for chemicals in the map and they are still adding recipes. It is unprecedented in MMO economies.

Could be a balance issue or something.

Regret, are most of the crafting items dual use?  In other words, do you have to make tradeoffs between using carbonic acid for ethanol and for something else?

From a quick look I'd guess near enough everything will have dual/triple/X potential uses which will inevitably lead to hilarious balance issues and broken economy. I admire the attempted scale but I can't see it being much beyond a broken mess quite quickly. There's a certain mindset that will enjoy crafting every part of their lamp but given the time investment that seems required here you could probably learn how to do that shit in real life.

They're also quite non-committal on future monetisation plans beyond "must be done,somehow". That's going to be one to watch because whatever gets implemented will probably fuck a bunch of other things up again. Which should be moderately amusing. Probably not on the dungeon keeper mobile/mechwarrior online levels but a chuckle nonetheless.



Heh, yeah. The economy is going to be interesting to say the least. I think they are hoping for some kind of self-balancing system of feedback loops, I don't know if it is going to work, but it is going to be very interesting to find out!
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

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Cain

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Yeah, most of them are even poly-use, there is nothing linear about it.
Carbonic acid is used in 21 recipes, of which 1 is a failed chemical (I think they put those bad recipes in there to fuck with people.) and 8 are for different types of batteries, so effectively 13 different crafting uses. I regularly see 60+ uses for chemicals in the map and they are still adding recipes. It is unprecedented in MMO economies.

That would make sense, then.  Even though scientifically it's nonsense, by imposing a cost on using it for different crafting purposes, you have to weigh the usefulness against your resources and blah blah blah.

Reginald Ret

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Yeah, most of them are even poly-use, there is nothing linear about it.
Carbonic acid is used in 21 recipes, of which 1 is a failed chemical (I think they put those bad recipes in there to fuck with people.) and 8 are for different types of batteries, so effectively 13 different crafting uses. I regularly see 60+ uses for chemicals in the map and they are still adding recipes. It is unprecedented in MMO economies.

That would make sense, then.  Even though scientifically it's nonsense, by imposing a cost on using it for different crafting purposes, you have to weigh the usefulness against your resources and blah blah blah.
Not complete nonsense:
Ethanol (...) is made (...) primarily by the acid-catalyzed hydration of ethylene
Wrong acid though.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Yeah, most of them are even poly-use, there is nothing linear about it.
Carbonic acid is used in 21 recipes, of which 1 is a failed chemical (I think they put those bad recipes in there to fuck with people.) and 8 are for different types of batteries, so effectively 13 different crafting uses. I regularly see 60+ uses for chemicals in the map and they are still adding recipes. It is unprecedented in MMO economies.

That would make sense, then.  Even though scientifically it's nonsense, by imposing a cost on using it for different crafting purposes, you have to weigh the usefulness against your resources and blah blah blah.
Not complete nonsense:
Ethanol (...) is made (...) primarily by the acid-catalyzed hydration of ethylene
Wrong acid though.

Cool, there's something I didn't know.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Reginald Ret

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I got over my fanboy admiration of the crafting system and went looking for blatant crafting silliness.
Here is the worst one I found so far:
Vitamin spray is necessary for the following products:
Pectin
Fruit juice
Seasoning, used for more than 50 meat and fish dishes
Flour, only used for stews and ice-cream strangely enough
Vegetable oil
Alcoholic beverages like moonshine and vodka
Bacon
Animal fat

Apparently the bacon, ice-cream, and vodka diet is healthier than i thought.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Flour in ice-cream?  :lulz: I think they're doing this on purpose.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”