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So what's this whole Race and Gender thing all about....

Started by Chelagoras The Boulder, July 10, 2015, 08:16:57 AM

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Chelagoras The Boulder

Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 18, 2015, 07:34:02 PM
Quote from: President Television on August 18, 2015, 05:43:29 PM
This particular individual(though not necessarily representative of anyone else) openly stated her intention to stifle it. It's depressing as hell.

What you have there is tumblr, Sanders groupies, and my mom.
You bring up Tumblr, do you think that the medium in which these discussions happen matter? does this method just not work on the internet, since people feel less inhibited to be assholes there?
"It isn't who you know, it's who you know, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do."

LMNO

From what I hear, it's happening in some colleges, as well.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on August 18, 2015, 07:40:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 18, 2015, 07:34:02 PM
Quote from: President Television on August 18, 2015, 05:43:29 PM
This particular individual(though not necessarily representative of anyone else) openly stated her intention to stifle it. It's depressing as hell.

What you have there is tumblr, Sanders groupies, and my mom.
You bring up Tumblr, do you think that the medium in which these discussions happen matter? does this method just not work on the internet, since people feel less inhibited to be assholes there?

The fart blanket occurs at any time in which only one opinion can be expressed.  It is best described by tumblr, upon which only comments allowed by the blog owner see daylight.  Any time that occurs, IRL, internet, whatever, it becomes a downward spiral of extremism.

For non-SJW types doing this, go to a Sanders page on FB and express any sort of opinion that doesn't involve Sanders sweeping the nation in both the primary and the general election.

Wear a hard hat.
Molon Lube

Cain

Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on August 18, 2015, 07:40:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 18, 2015, 07:34:02 PM
Quote from: President Television on August 18, 2015, 05:43:29 PM
This particular individual(though not necessarily representative of anyone else) openly stated her intention to stifle it. It's depressing as hell.

What you have there is tumblr, Sanders groupies, and my mom.
You bring up Tumblr, do you think that the medium in which these discussions happen matter? does this method just not work on the internet, since people feel less inhibited to be assholes there?

I'm not sure I'm reading you right, but people absolutely tend towards assholism and extremism online, far more so than IRL.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on August 18, 2015, 07:16:01 PM
well, also does one make allowances for expertise? Like, how much would say a white professor of African Studies with a history of social activism get to say on the topic of black civil rights, compared to say a black teenager who has much day to day experience with racism but has no idea how to lead a social movement? There seems to be an assumption that based on ones race or gender that the people in the group already know what the speaker is going to contribute to the group and have already decided that it is inherently of less value than something another person might say.

Everything is context dependent. It sounds like it might just be a shitty group full of immature people.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 18, 2015, 07:38:11 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 18, 2015, 07:32:26 PM
I think I'm gonna hand the expertise on the subject of race over to the people with the most day-to-day experience with it.

Would you prefer to have a high rise building's tabs (the metal hangers that are used to hold the concrete slabs in place) inspected by a welder with 20 years experience, or an engineering professor with zero time in the field?

And this would also be the perfect time for questions -- specifically, the white professor asking questions of the black teens.

I would hope that a white professor of Black studies would have the depth of knowledge to understand when he is not an appropriate leader. The white expert on black culture might have some valuable contributions to a black civil rights movement, but he couldn't lead it effectively. He could make suggestions, but no matter how much he had studied, it would be terribly paternalistic for him to try to lead. "Hey black people, just do what I say and I will lead you out of white oppression".
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


LMNO

That sounds very similar to a lot of BLM complaints about Sanders when he says, "trust me, racism is an economic issue."

Chelagoras The Boulder

Quote from: Cain on August 18, 2015, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on August 18, 2015, 07:40:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 18, 2015, 07:34:02 PM
Quote from: President Television on August 18, 2015, 05:43:29 PM
This particular individual(though not necessarily representative of anyone else) openly stated her intention to stifle it. It's depressing as hell.

What you have there is tumblr, Sanders groupies, and my mom.
You bring up Tumblr, do you think that the medium in which these discussions happen matter? does this method just not work on the internet, since people feel less inhibited to be assholes there?

I'm not sure I'm reading you right, but people absolutely tend towards assholism and extremism online, far more so than IRL.
I guess i meant to ask, would this method work better IRL, since I've only seen it used on tumblr to start flamewars.
"It isn't who you know, it's who you know, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do."

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on August 18, 2015, 08:50:56 PM
Quote from: Cain on August 18, 2015, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on August 18, 2015, 07:40:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 18, 2015, 07:34:02 PM
Quote from: President Television on August 18, 2015, 05:43:29 PM
This particular individual(though not necessarily representative of anyone else) openly stated her intention to stifle it. It's depressing as hell.

What you have there is tumblr, Sanders groupies, and my mom.
You bring up Tumblr, do you think that the medium in which these discussions happen matter? does this method just not work on the internet, since people feel less inhibited to be assholes there?

I'm not sure I'm reading you right, but people absolutely tend towards assholism and extremism online, far more so than IRL.
I guess i meant to ask, would this method work better IRL, since I've only seen it used on tumblr to start flamewars.

You can't really talk to extremists.  It's what makes them extremists.
Molon Lube

Chelagoras The Boulder

Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 18, 2015, 08:33:18 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 18, 2015, 07:38:11 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 18, 2015, 07:32:26 PM
I think I'm gonna hand the expertise on the subject of race over to the people with the most day-to-day experience with it.

Would you prefer to have a high rise building's tabs (the metal hangers that are used to hold the concrete slabs in place) inspected by a welder with 20 years experience, or an engineering professor with zero time in the field?

And this would also be the perfect time for questions -- specifically, the white professor asking questions of the black teens.

I would hope that a white professor of Black studies would have the depth of knowledge to understand when he is not an appropriate leader. The white expert on black culture might have some valuable contributions to a black civil rights movement, but he couldn't lead it effectively. He could make suggestions, but no matter how much he had studied, it would be terribly paternalistic for him to try to lead. "Hey black people, just do what I say and I will lead you out of white oppression".
so basically the professor would need to be less Arthur, more Merlin.
"It isn't who you know, it's who you know, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do."

Don Coyote

Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 18, 2015, 07:44:32 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on August 18, 2015, 07:40:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 18, 2015, 07:34:02 PM
Quote from: President Television on August 18, 2015, 05:43:29 PM
This particular individual(though not necessarily representative of anyone else) openly stated her intention to stifle it. It's depressing as hell.

What you have there is tumblr, Sanders groupies, and my mom.
You bring up Tumblr, do you think that the medium in which these discussions happen matter? does this method just not work on the internet, since people feel less inhibited to be assholes there?

The fart blanket occurs at any time in which only one opinion can be expressed.  It is best described by tumblr, upon which only comments allowed by the blog owner see daylight.  Any time that occurs, IRL, internet, whatever, it becomes a downward spiral of extremism.

For non-SJW types doing this, go to a Sanders page on FB and express any sort of opinion that doesn't involve Sanders sweeping the nation in both the primary and the general election.

Wear a hard hat.

I'm going to have to disagree with your assertion that only comments allowed by the blog owner will see daylight. Tumblr isn't set up that. Once a post is made on Tumblr anyone who reblogs that post can make whatever comments they want, and can currently edit the text of the original and any other reblogged comments. It's a fart blanket because it's easy for anyone who doesn't make the original post to only see comments made by blogs they follow, or those comments that are being targeted for a call-out.

Tumblr is like Twitter but with no character limit.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 18, 2015, 08:38:51 PM
That sounds very similar to a lot of BLM complaints about Sanders when he says, "trust me, racism is an economic issue."

Yes, very much.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Chelagoras The Boulder

Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 18, 2015, 08:26:28 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on August 18, 2015, 07:16:01 PM
well, also does one make allowances for expertise? Like, how much would say a white professor of African Studies with a history of social activism get to say on the topic of black civil rights, compared to say a black teenager who has much day to day experience with racism but has no idea how to lead a social movement? There seems to be an assumption that based on ones race or gender that the people in the group already know what the speaker is going to contribute to the group and have already decided that it is inherently of less value than something another person might say.

Everything is context dependent. It sounds like it might just be a shitty group full of immature people.
This reminds me of this: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIvwupbScpM

see, i've been thinking about this and this is what bothers me, is that, this sort of rule about who can speak most makes the exercise into a  sort of social game where everyone is fighting to be the least privileged person in the discussion because we're still monkeys and love being the top monkey most of all. Or, failing that, they will make up things to be victimized for (see Otherkin, Fictives) because hey, social status right?

but at the same time, I don't really see another alternative. Old school Socratic discourse maybe, but i don't see that catching on. Ideally i just wish that instead of a hard and fast rule that can be used as a cudgel to shut up people you don't agree with, there was just a general understanding that discussions like this are like visiting a foreign country. You go to France or where ever to absorb a new kind of cultural experience, so it's best to sit back and absorb it as much as you can. Drink the wine taste the food, and for gods sake, don't go on about how in America, the pasta is deep fried and comes with unlimited breadsticks.

I wish people could talk to each other like that, without being  assholes, but then again i also wish for unicorns to piss rainbows and for everything to taste like chocolate, soo......
"It isn't who you know, it's who you know, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do."

Meunster

Man, if only there was a internet forum where you we're only judged off what you posted, with no prior prejudices from race, gender, past, etc.
Oh wait, there is, and it's a shit hole.
Poe's law ;)

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

#89
Quote from: The Johnny on July 11, 2015, 01:29:05 AM

Article 5   Freedom from ... Degrading Treatment

I would tweak this one. It is sufficient for the amount of degrading treatment to be equal for all; that it be specifically zero for all is unnecessarily specific and probably conducive to narcissism.
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.


a plague on both your houses -Mercutio


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8


It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft


He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q


You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata


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