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Calling it now: Dems snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in 2016.

Started by Doktor Howl, August 04, 2015, 12:19:20 AM

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Prelate Diogenes Shandor

Quote from: Junkenstein on September 17, 2016, 03:31:03 AM
When this centuries propaganda is s studied in the future this is going to be a fantastic example of the big lie.

If there is a future
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.


a plague on both your houses -Mercutio


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8


It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft


He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q


You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata


Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

minuspace

Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on September 20, 2016, 01:52:08 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 17, 2016, 03:31:03 AM
When this centuries propaganda is s studied in the future this is going to be a fantastic example of the big lie.

If there is a future
its recognition is not guaranteed

minuspace

Quote from: Xaz on September 18, 2016, 02:24:29 PM
Quote from: Cain on September 15, 2016, 02:00:24 AM
Meanwhile, the press and Hillary Clinton are discussing Pepe the Frog.

Just when you thought this election cycle couldn't get more surreal...

https://pepethefrogfaith.wordpress.com/

And this is what happens when hypersigils intersect said cycle by way of dChan

The Good Reverend Roger

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

MMIX

"The ultimate hidden truth of the world is that it is something we make and could just as easily make differently" David Graeber

Q. G. Pennyworth

Cain, can I get some perspective on this shit? http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/emails-show-clinton-foundation-donor-reached-out-hillary-clinton-arms-export-boost

QuoteEmails just released by the State Department appear to show Clinton Foundation officials brokering a meeting between then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and a top military leader of Bahrain — a Middle Eastern country that is a major foundation donor. Soon after the correspondence about a meeting, Clinton's State Department significantly increased arms export authorizations to the country's autocratic government, even as that nation moved to crush pro-democracy protests.

I'm still not gonna stop supporting Hillary, because the alternative is unthinkable, but this seems really bad.

Junkenstein

Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Junkenstein

Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on September 20, 2016, 06:05:12 PM
Cain, can I get some perspective on this shit? http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/emails-show-clinton-foundation-donor-reached-out-hillary-clinton-arms-export-boost

QuoteEmails just released by the State Department appear to show Clinton Foundation officials brokering a meeting between then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and a top military leader of Bahrain — a Middle Eastern country that is a major foundation donor. Soon after the correspondence about a meeting, Clinton's State Department significantly increased arms export authorizations to the country's autocratic government, even as that nation moved to crush pro-democracy protests.

I'm still not gonna stop supporting Hillary, because the alternative is unthinkable, but this seems really bad.

For what it's worth, that's standard practice in the UK. Most visits, particularly to troubled countries by officials are often just a pretense to an arms deal or 6. There's at least 3 dedicated cabinet posts were selling arms gets you a gold star. Good for the economy, see?

In this context, think "would trump make better or worse arms deals than clinton?". That should tell you everything.

Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Q. G. Pennyworth

Quote from: Junkenstein on September 20, 2016, 06:14:57 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on September 20, 2016, 06:05:12 PM
Cain, can I get some perspective on this shit? http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/emails-show-clinton-foundation-donor-reached-out-hillary-clinton-arms-export-boost

QuoteEmails just released by the State Department appear to show Clinton Foundation officials brokering a meeting between then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and a top military leader of Bahrain — a Middle Eastern country that is a major foundation donor. Soon after the correspondence about a meeting, Clinton's State Department significantly increased arms export authorizations to the country's autocratic government, even as that nation moved to crush pro-democracy protests.

I'm still not gonna stop supporting Hillary, because the alternative is unthinkable, but this seems really bad.

For what it's worth, that's standard practice in the UK. Most visits, particularly to troubled countries by officials are often just a pretense to an arms deal or 6. There's at least 3 dedicated cabinet posts were selling arms gets you a gold star. Good for the economy, see?

In this context, think "would trump make better or worse arms deals than clinton?". That should tell you everything.

Yeah, it's still "shit sandwich vs. shit sandwich with ebola," but it would be nice if she was a little less of a shit sandwich.

Junkenstein

It also displays some of the lobbying issues that have been ongoing for a while now too. But again then question and context is "would trump be more or less of a tool than Clinton?". The cronyism under trump would make bush blush.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

LMNO

As far as I can tell, no proof of quid pro quo is there.  It's shady, but I have the feeling it's politics as normal.

MMIX

Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on September 20, 2016, 06:05:12 PM
Cain, can I get some perspective on this shit? http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/emails-show-clinton-foundation-donor-reached-out-hillary-clinton-arms-export-boost

QuoteEmails just released by the State Department appear to show Clinton Foundation officials brokering a meeting between then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and a top military leader of Bahrain — a Middle Eastern country that is a major foundation donor. Soon after the correspondence about a meeting, Clinton's State Department significantly increased arms export authorizations to the country's autocratic government, even as that nation moved to crush pro-democracy protests.

I'm still not gonna stop supporting Hillary, because the alternative is unthinkable, but this seems really bad.

I would be more tempted to give it credence if the guy who wrote the piece didn't have a stint working for Bernie Sanders on his cv. Facts never speak for themselves.
"The ultimate hidden truth of the world is that it is something we make and could just as easily make differently" David Graeber

Cain

Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on September 20, 2016, 06:05:12 PM
Cain, can I get some perspective on this shit? http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/emails-show-clinton-foundation-donor-reached-out-hillary-clinton-arms-export-boost

QuoteEmails just released by the State Department appear to show Clinton Foundation officials brokering a meeting between then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and a top military leader of Bahrain — a Middle Eastern country that is a major foundation donor. Soon after the correspondence about a meeting, Clinton's State Department significantly increased arms export authorizations to the country's autocratic government, even as that nation moved to crush pro-democracy protests.

I'm still not gonna stop supporting Hillary, because the alternative is unthinkable, but this seems really bad.

US has been selling significant levels of arms to Bahrain for years.  The Fifth Fleet is also positioned there, poised to strike against Iran if there is ever anything approaching a reason.  I don't like it much, but Bahrain, it's strategic naval position and its not inconsiderable financial sector are of key interest to the Americans.  The House of Khalifa will not be allowed to fall.

Also, while the State Department set the policy parameters for sales, the actual details are hammered out by the Pentagon, with input from the White House and then passed onto the House and Senate (with prior imput from their select committees on foreign affairs, intelligence and arms) before they're agreed.  As we can see from this, Congress did indeed kill the deal, in the end.

I think people are vastly overestimating the influence of the State Department in these proceedings.  Clinton made State less of a lame duck...but it's been the case since the Cold War that if you want shit done, you speak to the CIA Station Chief, the NSC and the local US Army commander, not the State Department.  State's for baby-kissing photo ops, lame cultural events and uninteresting trade deals.

And lets not forget that there was not insiginificant arm-twisting by the House of Saud in this whole scenario.  The Saudis sent a full on invasion force into Bahrain...American arms may have been intended to reduce Bahraini reliance on Saudi arms...or may have been asked by Saudi Arabia fearful of overseas commitments when trouble was brewing on their own borders.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LMNO on September 20, 2016, 08:18:31 PM
As far as I can tell, no proof of quid pro quo is there.  It's shady, but I have the feeling it's politics as normal.

Saints preserve us from non-shady politicians.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

I am noticing a similarity between die hard berners and spousal abusers.

"I will never vote for Clinton, but if you don't kiss my ass, I won't vote for Clinton."

I am brain-farting and unable to remember the term for this sort of statement.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.