economic proof that at some point it is desirable to die

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

No, I want thewake doing the math.

Show us the math, thewake.  I want to see what kind of economic students the 584th ranked college in the USA is producing.  Teach us, oh wise one.

what kind of math do you want me to do?

I mean, it's not like I can get the information out of someone's head and actually have real marginal benefit and marginal cost curves. The graph, while based on a few assumptions that can be shown to generally be true, is ultimately more or less a heuristic that can't take into account all the multitude of variables that actually exist in the real world and may, or may not, be measurable. I'm also assuming moments of life is normal good, which may be quite stupid. :P

You're also assuming life gets less good as you get more of it. Most of the old people I know would disagree vehemently.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Let me be more explicit, which may give all of you a lesson in microeconomics and marginal theory

This is gonna be good, I can tell.

I am actually squeeing.  Like OUT LOUD.

It's been a while since someone has come to teach us!

I'm so happy!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

To quote Joseph Jastrow 'Create a belief in the theory and the facts will create themselves'.

I don't know if this fits in with the serious debate going on, but I like the quote, and so should you.

I do.  I love it.

[thewake]

No, I want thewake doing the math.

Show us the math, thewake.  I want to see what kind of economic students the 584th ranked college in the USA is producing.  Teach us, oh wise one.

what kind of math do you want me to do?

I mean, it's not like I can get the information out of someone's head and actually have real marginal benefit and marginal cost curves. The graph, while based on a few assumptions that can be shown to generally be true, is ultimately more or less a heuristic that can't take into account all the multitude of variables that actually exist in the real world and may, or may not, be measurable. I'm also assuming moments of life is normal good, which may be quite stupid. :P

You're also assuming life gets less good as you get more of it. Most of the old people I know would disagree vehemently.

Lots of old people told me "high school was the best time of my life kiddo better take advantage of it while you can," and I was like holy fuck high school sucks you must have a shitty ass life. So I assume those people have declining marginal benefits of living life. My mom also told me getting old sucks. Of course old is relative. My mom is in her 50s.

Of course it could be that the marginal benefit of each moment lived rises before it starts to decline., so you'd get a curve that's some variant of this shape:
https://imgur.com/BwOdzSg (disregard that the graph is actually of a marginal revenue product curve)

I believe in my later explanation, I stipulated an overall downward trend. Not necessarily that things can't improve at some point. Maybe it increases all up until the very end, and then makes a steep dive (or maybe marginal cost just increases more steeply and eventually catches up with benefits, which increase more slowly or stay constant).

The idea that the marginal benefit of living another moment of life will always be higher than the marginal costs (in terms of utility) implies that it is desirable to live forever, which doesn't necessarily seem like the correct conclusion, at least not in this universe. :P
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhoWantsToLiveForever

And of course there's always the possibility that I'm wrong.

[rong]

Eternal life <=> procrastination level = expert

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Lots of old people told me "high school was the best time of my life kiddo better take advantage of it while you can,"

Or maybe they're trying to get you to live in the moment, like a proper human.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I am puzzled by your insistence that at some point life isn't worth the money.

You sound like one of those libertariantards.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Anyone?  ?  ?      Anyone?  ?  ?
   \

He was actually giving a real econ lecture when they filmed that movie

----themoreyouknow!!--->

Ooh!  Can we then argue that life itself is meaningless and has no inherent value, since the only true thing that's happening in the universe is the probabilistic movement of sub-atomic particles in the void?

this is my fetish

Then you should probably major in physics or physical chemistry instead of economics. Not only is it a real science that is actually useful, but you might even be able to do something productive with your life.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The graph, while based on a few assumptions that can be shown to generally be true, is ultimately more or less a heuristic that can't take into account all the multitude of variables that actually exist in the real world and may, or may not, be measurable.

Explain how it is a heuristic.

Start by looking up the definition of heuristic.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Notice that I explicitly said we are unable to actually measure utility.

And then define "utility" for the purposes of your alleged heuristic.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Lots of old people told me "high school was the best time of my life kiddo better take advantage of it while you can," and I was like holy fuck high school sucks you must have a shitty ass life.

That is a reasonable assumption. It's got to suck to peak before you turn 18.

So I assume those people have declining marginal benefits of living life. My mom also told me getting old sucks. Of course old is relative. My mom is in her 50s.

Getting old does suck... physically. Primarily because after a while various parts start to break down or get tumors, plus getting old means getting closer to dying, which, in my experience, sucks more the older you get because life gets a lot more fun. So you're like, seriously, the party is just getting started and I'm gonna get thrown out? I'm 44 and my life is better than it's ever been, and getting better all the time, except for shit like not generally being as healthy or having as much stamina as when I was 20. My dad's in his late 80's and he's like, "every day's like Christmas! I gotta do more shit before I die!" so I take it shit keeps getting more fun. I don't think your graph takes that into consideration.

And of course there's always the possibility that I'm wrong.

[thewake]

Or maybe they're trying to get you to live in the moment, like a proper human.

I didn't know there was a way to be a proper human. If there is, I'm inclined to be an improper human.

I am puzzled by your insistence that at some point life isn't worth the money.

You sound like one of those libertariantards.

I didn't say it wasn't worth the money. I never used monetary units in my admittedly simple theoretical analysis. I used utility. Although, for the cheap among us, it might not be worth it at times. I merely stated that at some point in a person's life, given they live long enough to reach this point and also assuming that my assumption of overall diminishing marginal utility and  Economics isn't just about money. It's about choices.

I also am a libertariantard, or some mutant variant thereof.

Ooh!  Can we then argue that life itself is meaningless and has no inherent value, since the only true thing that's happening in the universe is the probabilistic movement of sub-atomic particles in the void?

this is my fetish

Then you should probably major in physics or physical chemistry instead of economics. Not only is it a real science that is actually useful, but you might even be able to do something productive with your life.

I love economics.

Explain how it is a heuristic.

Start by looking up the definition of heuristic.

I know what heuristic means. A general rule of thumb of some sort. Wikipedia says it's "any approach to problem solving, learning, or discovery that employs a practical method not guaranteed to be optimal or perfect, but sufficient for the immediate goals." As a model, it's not a perfect representation of what I'm trying to get across because I don't know the exact shapes of how these curves would look because I can't get my hands on real data. Kind of like standard supply and demand curves in a textbook, which may not completely represent real-world markets but get the job done for understanding basic principles.

And then define "utility" for the purposes of your alleged heuristic.

Must not have made that clear enough. I'm using the standard economic definition of utility.

I think wikipedia expresses it well in this phrase: "it represents satisfaction experienced by the consumer of a good."

Getting old does suck... physically. Primarily because after a while various parts start to break down or get tumors, plus getting old means getting closer to dying, which, in my experience, sucks more the older you get because life gets a lot more fun. So you're like, seriously, the party is just getting started and I'm gonna get thrown out? I'm 44 and my life is better than it's ever been, and getting better all the time, except for shit like not generally being as healthy or having as much stamina as when I was 20. My dad's in his late 80's and he's like, "every day's like Christmas! I gotta do more shit before I die!" so I take it shit keeps getting more fun. I don't think your graph takes that into consideration.

Well it doesn't have to. As I said before, there just has to be an overall downward trend and either fixed or increasing marginal costs for it to work out that, at some point, the two lines will cross. My analysis just uses straight, downward/upward sloping lines for convenience.

I could have drawn it like this,which might more accurately reflect a normal human's life: https://imgur.com/eTBYoaX
please forgive my lack of labeling the new one, assume it's labeled the same as the original :P

[Nast]

I have nothing to add to this thread other than fuck you old people I'm gonna live forever.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The graph, while based on a few assumptions that can be shown to generally be true, is ultimately more or less a heuristic that can't take into account all the multitude of variables that actually exist in the real world and may, or may not, be measurable.

Explain how it is a heuristic.

Start by looking up the definition of heuristic.

Stop being so paradigm.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I also am a libertariantard, or some mutant variant thereof.

You should have said so right away.  Irreplaceable amounts of my time on this Earth - which is apparently declining in value - have been wasted.