Politically Correct

[MMIX]

Political correctness is shallow. It treats how you talk to people as being as important as how you treat them.[snip]

This couldn't be further from the truth. It isn't about how you talk "TO" people it is about how you talk "ABOUT" people; and consequently how you "THINK" about them.

[Junkenstein]

Something of an aside, but I suspect the value of PC relates directly to the industry you're dealing with. I would imagine you get far fewer blatant racists in the halls of academia than compared to building sites and wrecking yards.

For me, the irony here is that you find that humans can adapt to PC rather quickly once they understand that it relates to their ability to gain money. The further irony being that once so adapted, they will actually teach and enforce the behavior in others.

I suppose the point is that you deal with as much racist (and such) bullshit as you allow around you. I tolerate very little, because why the fuck should you? If the people you're working with aren't at least smart enough to shut the fuck up, they're probably fucking useless at their job too. It's anecdotal, but I've yet to encounter a guy throwing out racist shit who was actually good at their job. I've found that to be true in many industries. I suspect it's some combination of fear for their own continued employment mixed with a dash of the other and ignorance.

[Cain]

Unfortunately, I don't think such people are as in the past or dying off as we'd like to think.  Social media's a difficult way to guage such things, but for instance, the other day, someone posted a harmless, inoffensive Kanye meme with Caitlyn Jenner in it, from one of those popular FB meme factories.

I clicked to look more closely at the picture, and so the comments came up.  Truly shocking amounts of transphobia, all the way down the comments.  And that's not uncommon, where Caitlyn Jenner is mentioned.

The term "PC" seems to have been mostly replaced at this point by "SJW", with anyone espousing any kind of left of centre or liberal viewpoint on social media, unless they carefully curate their content and friends, with a barrage of "go back to tumblr", "you PC bro?" and "shut up SJW cuck".  And sometimes this can even be in response to things that aren't even political but just basic courtesy - such as referring to someone by their preferred gender.

And the desire to not be bombarded by a gaggle of idiots is now seen in and of itself as censorship.  As in, people have the right to subject you to their endless shitty opinions on any given topic.

I don't think its as bad In Reality as it is online, but online definitely shows there are people out there who are willing to espouse and argue for some very shitty positions, so long as there is no reputational cost.  More worryingly, it appears to have been picked up upon by a younger generation and political operatives - look at the wholesale takeoever of Gamergate (which was pretty shitty in the first place) by Breitbart and TheRedPill advocates, and repackaged into a culture war plot taken directly from the early 90s.

[Junkenstein]

I'd guess that part of the reason for social media being such a shitheap would be in part due to the fact that these people are somewhat censored through the day. Imagine: Going 8 hours not being able to shout your stupid mouth off or you can't pay rent. So what do you do? Make a great big noise on facebook and the like about how it's VERY UNFAIR that you are oppressed by THEM. This would explain how people are (still) losing jobs due to whatever crap they posted on facebook, etc.

I'm open to other theories but I suspect that this or something close has a part in it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The real problem, as I see it, is that we don't have any really biting slur for white people. "Honky" just doesn't cut it and "Cracker" and "WASP" only apply to subsets. If there was a good generic slur for white people that would restore the balance of the language much more smoothly and flowingly than political correctness.

Why try to add more hate speech into the world? Also, I don't think there's any slur that would sting white people on their own turf. In a country where white people are the minority words that would seem innocuous in America/Europe could start to have a bit of bite to them. I mean, fuck that noise wherever you are, but adding to it doesn't help.

Its too late for them. Their time has passed, and they are simply digging in their heels and trying to screech us back into the 20th century, when women were chicks, blacks were grateful, and retards were retards.

Who do you mean by retards?

I mean that in the 80's it was totally socially acceptable in some "edgy" circles to call people with cognitive disabilities "retards", and using it as an insult was commonplace. Very trashy, but commonplace nonetheless.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I suppose the point is that you deal with as much racist (and such) bullshit as you allow around you.

I am not giving your post justice at the moment because I should really be getting ready to go to those academic halls, but this jumped out at me and I wanted to mention that it's only true, in our society, if you're white.

More later, that was a good post and I want to spend more time responding to it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Unfortunately, I don't think such people are as in the past or dying off as we'd like to think.  Social media's a difficult way to guage such things, but for instance, the other day, someone posted a harmless, inoffensive Kanye meme with Caitlyn Jenner in it, from one of those popular FB meme factories.

I clicked to look more closely at the picture, and so the comments came up.  Truly shocking amounts of transphobia, all the way down the comments.  And that's not uncommon, where Caitlyn Jenner is mentioned.

The term "PC" seems to have been mostly replaced at this point by "SJW", with anyone espousing any kind of left of centre or liberal viewpoint on social media, unless they carefully curate their content and friends, with a barrage of "go back to tumblr", "you PC bro?" and "shut up SJW cuck".  And sometimes this can even be in response to things that aren't even political but just basic courtesy - such as referring to someone by their preferred gender.

And the desire to not be bombarded by a gaggle of idiots is now seen in and of itself as censorship.  As in, people have the right to subject you to their endless shitty opinions on any given topic.

I don't think its as bad In Reality as it is online, but online definitely shows there are people out there who are willing to espouse and argue for some very shitty positions, so long as there is no reputational cost.  More worryingly, it appears to have been picked up upon by a younger generation and political operatives - look at the wholesale takeoever of Gamergate (which was pretty shitty in the first place) by Breitbart and TheRedPill advocates, and repackaged into a culture war plot taken directly from the early 90s.

They're not dying off YET, because the bulk of them are relatively young. But I think they can feel the pressure of change coming down the turnpike, and that's why they're screeching about it.

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

Something of an aside, but I suspect the value of PC relates directly to the industry you're dealing with. I would imagine you get far fewer blatant racists in the halls of academia than compared to building sites and wrecking yards.

For me, the irony here is that you find that humans can adapt to PC rather quickly once they understand that it relates to their ability to gain money. The further irony being that once so adapted, they will actually teach and enforce the behavior in others.

I suppose the point is that you deal with as much racist (and such) bullshit as you allow around you. I tolerate very little, because why the fuck should you? If the people you're working with aren't at least smart enough to shut the fuck up, they're probably fucking useless at their job too. It's anecdotal, but I've yet to encounter a guy throwing out racist shit who was actually good at their job. I've found that to be true in many industries. I suspect it's some combination of fear for their own continued employment mixed with a dash of the other and ignorance.

The problem is that a lot of it isn't racist but has been labeled as such anyway. "Oriental" was never a slur, and neither was "black" or even "colored" for that matter. They certainly appeared in racially charged tirates made by racist people, but you could just as easily slot in any more modern synonyms and he tirade would be just as offensive.

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

The real problem, as I see it, is that we don't have any really biting slur for white people. "Honky" just doesn't cut it and "Cracker" and "WASP" only apply to subsets. If there was a good generic slur for white people that would restore the balance of the language much more smoothly and flowingly than political correctness.

Why try to add more hate speech into the world? Also, I don't think there's any slur that would sting white people on their own turf. In a country where white people are the minority words that would seem innocuous in America/Europe could start to have a bit of bite to them. I mean, fuck that noise wherever you are, but adding to it doesn't help.

Its too late for them. Their time has passed, and they are simply digging in their heels and trying to screech us back into the 20th century, when women were chicks, blacks were grateful, and retards were retards.

Who do you mean by retards?

I mean that in the 80's it was totally socially acceptable in some "edgy" circles to call people with cognitive disabilities "retards", and using it as an insult was commonplace. Very trashy, but commonplace nonetheless.

In he 80's it was acceptable in psychiatry to say that people with intellectual disabilities were "retarded".

That's the fucking technical term!

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

And sometimes this can even be in response to things that aren't even political but just basic courtesy - such as referring to someone by their preferred gender.

How you identify doesn't define your identity.

Only an emotionally unattached outside observer making empirical measurements can tell you who you are.

[Junkenstein]

I suppose the point is that you deal with as much racist (and such) bullshit as you allow around you.

I am not giving your post justice at the moment because I should really be getting ready to go to those academic halls, but this jumped out at me and I wanted to mention that it's only true, in our society, if you're white.

More later, that was a good post and I want to spend more time responding to it.

Yeah, obviously the bias is from a pretty privileged position, generally. And also substitute Academia for any other relatively progressive-ish/ white collar environment. Or at least environments where you'd expect a general higher level of education/literacy/liberal(whatever that is) thinking. Interested to hear more, your perspective is quite helpful.

[Cain]

And sometimes this can even be in response to things that aren't even political but just basic courtesy - such as referring to someone by their preferred gender.

How you identify doesn't define your identity.

Only an emotionally unattached outside observer making empirical measurements can tell you who you are.

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

Plus, if you really buy into how we talk about people influencing equality, then we should give "he" and "she" a pass and refer to everyone using singular "they". That's equality.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

Plus, if you really buy into how we talk about people influencing equality, then we should give "he" and "she" a pass and refer to everyone using singular "they". That's equality.

And Esperanto should be the universal language, what's your point? Besides that you're being a colossal toolbag in this thread?

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

Because you're half-assing this. If you're already gonna change how you use pronouns to promote equality that's the change you should be making.