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UK General Election 8th June: Shake it all about?

Started by Vanadium Gryllz, February 23, 2016, 02:54:34 PM

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Cain

While I no doubt believe his debut on the world stage will be a complete failure that will be talked about for the ages, the only thing more inept than Boris at this point is the state of the British opposition, most of whom would rather have a No Deal Brexit than have a "sCaRy sOcIaLiSt" as a caretaker PM.

Both the rebel Tories and Lib Dems have snubbed the idea of working with Corbyn, but without Corbyn in charge, Labour rebels in favour of Brexit can scupper their majority without having to leave the party. With Corbyn in charge, Labour rules apply to the rebels and they risk forfeiting their seats.

The only party that seems halfway serious is the SNP, who have said they have no problem working with Corbyn or Labour generally to prevent a No Deal Brexit.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Cain on August 23, 2019, 09:22:34 PM
While I no doubt believe his debut on the world stage will be a complete failure that will be talked about for the ages, the only thing more inept than Boris at this point is the state of the British opposition, most of whom would rather have a No Deal Brexit than have a "sCaRy sOcIaLiSt" as a caretaker PM.

I saw that. 

What the fuck is wrong with people?
Molon Lube

Cain

we shall be free; the Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
Here we may reign secure, and in my choice
to reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.

And Milton would know.

Junkenstien

Hey Cain, looking at today's shit, ( corbyn, the 116 mp's letter, javid cancelling, etc.) What are you saying to the current odds of crashing out then rejoining under(perceived) shitty terms? Like, say, UK uses the Euro now(That would be insisted on,no way you get the special preference on currency treatment twice), reduced/limited powers representation, loss of vetoes etc.

Just thinking that after a lot of these fucks have made money ruining the price of the pound, I'm betting shift profit to third currency (say $) to then fuck with the price of the euro rising on the re-admittance of the UK.



Cain

That'd be the smart long play.

However, it would be quite long-term for our current masters of the Universe, who frequently find the 24 hour news cycle too restricting for their needs.  I think it'll probably happen, and there is no way we would ever get back the special terms we previously operated under. But I also think that returning to the EU would take a number of years, perhaps even upwards of a decade, and while a favourable-ish free trade agreement could likely be agreed upon in the interim, I think the EU would want to see serious, structural guarantees that the UK isn't going to drop out 5 years later again.

I'm not sure our short-term thinkers could actually plan to think that far ahead.

Faust

1) The Queen has now been dragged into this. She is now in a position where if she accepts the request she is taking a political position and if she rejects the request she is taking a political position, something she has avoided for most of a century.
This failure of government almost makes rule by monarchy look good.

2) Nothing has changed. The clock is ticking. Even if every EU state turned on Ireland now (which it wont), and say changed the withdrawal agreement to remove the backstop. All Ireland needs to do is fail to ratify it by November first.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Faust on August 28, 2019, 09:44:14 AM
1) The Queen has now been dragged into this. She is now in a position where if she accepts the request she is taking a political position and if she rejects the request she is taking a political position, something she has avoided for most of a century.
This failure of government almost makes rule by monarchy look good.

2) Nothing has changed. The clock is ticking. Even if every EU state turned on Ireland now (which it wont), and say changed the withdrawal agreement to remove the backstop. All Ireland needs to do is fail to ratify it by November first.

https://www.apnews.com/8f2e6dc2d920423ba19c929076328784

And then Boris.
Molon Lube

Faust

That's where the queen comes in, she now has to ratify or reject prorogation, as in comply as complicit in his plan, or "betray brexit".
Firstly, monarchy should not exist, but if it does, it should be ceremonial, secondly, if the monarchy happens to be a 96 year old woman, dont force her into a position where 50% of the population will hate her guts when she has specifically asked to be kept out of this mess.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Cain

It's all been building to this point.

I don't know if the Queen actually has any constitutional basis to refuse Johnson's request, which could lead to the amusing spectacle of the Tory party attempting to oust the monarchy if she does not play along.

But for that he would need Parliament, so...

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2019, 02:39:46 PM
It's all been building to this point.

I don't know if the Queen actually has any constitutional basis to refuse Johnson's request, which could lead to the amusing spectacle of the Tory party attempting to oust the monarchy if she does not play along.

But for that he would need Parliament, so...

:lulz:
Molon Lube

Cain

Via the BBC

QuoteBBC royal correspondent Jonny Dymond said it was established precedent to prorogue Parliament before a Queen's Speech, albeit generally more briefly, and rarely, if ever, at such a constitutionally charged time.

He said it was "Her Majesty's Government" in name only and it was her role to take the advice of her ministers, so she would prorogue Parliament if asked to.

That was what I thought, but it has been a long time since I did Parliamentary procedure 101.

In which case, we are just waiting for a statement from the Queen that it is happening.


Faust

Makes sense I suppose. I dont think there is a way for the opposition to block no deal now if that's the choice, beyond having a sit in and trying to force the reopening of business.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

Cain

The legal challenge is the only hope.

That or rioting and breaking shit.

Cain

Or a VONC before Parliament closes down. But it needs to happen, right now, and I dont think that Tory rebels and Lib Dems will side with Labour in sufficient numbers.