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UK General Election 8th June: Shake it all about?

Started by Vanadium Gryllz, February 23, 2016, 02:54:34 PM

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P3nT4gR4m


I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
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Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
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walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Junkenstein

It's all relative really. While the reality is that another conservative government will be as strong and stable as this:

And we know that's being kind to them.

The vast majority of the population have been convinced that Corbyn is literally Satan. So it just becomes a crappy PR exercise convincing the faithful that May is actually the reincarnation of thatcher come to save us all from the horrors of Europe.

There was a RAW quote along the lines of "The left is just as robotic as the right". The current reality seems to be that the left is functionally identical to the right so regardless of what you vote for you will still get a heaping pile of shit shovelled in your general direction.   
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Junkenstein

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39789903

QuoteThe UK will not pay a £84.6bn "divorce bill" to leave the EU, Brexit Secretary David Davis has insisted.

QuoteVarious figures had been knocking around, he said, but asked directly whether a figure of £84.6bn or €100bn - was acceptable, he replied: "We will not be paying €100bn."

Taking bets on the final figure. £99 Billion quite likely. 120+ very much in the realms of possibility given how useless the people involved on the UK side are.



Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Faust

Isn't closing off debt owed to the EU and getting a proper trade agreement a way cheaper option? I mean this way the valiant Tories can look like they fearlessly stared down the EU, but in WTO rules (21% Import, 21% Export) that's going to rack up to a lot more then 100B, It will probably exceed that in the first six months.
Sleepless nights at the chateau

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: Junkenstein on May 03, 2017, 09:51:50 AM

The vast majority of the population have been convinced that Corbyn is literally Satan. So it just becomes a crappy PR exercise convincing the faithful that May is actually the reincarnation of thatcher come to save us all from the horrors of Europe.


Corbyn has that spineless schoolteacher affectation so popular amongst left wingers, spouting condescending "reasonableness" all over the place which is exactly the kind of thing that makes him so easy for the right to hate. The right know how things work in the "real world" and sometimes you just have to don a black shirt and gas a few eggs. The irony is that the "real world" is only like that cos the right wing make it like that with their knuckle dragging retarded shit making a mess all over the place.

I aint throwing my towel in with the left, tho. They sound good on paper but in practice they're just too easy to hate. They wear fucking woolen tanktops without a hint of irony and their ideas are all based on some pie in the sky bullshit that requires all the primates to act like rational conscious entities at all times. Shit, if your masterplan only requires a tiny minority to act like rational conscious entities even for a split second I'm going to call you a fucking idiot destined for failsville.

And then there's the total fuckhead fringe movements. Greens, Libdems, Pirate Party...

These are the choices I'm presented with and then told my vote is important. Au contraire democracy fanboy, I'm pretty sure I get to watch this shithole country burn to the ground regardless of how or even if I choose to vote.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Junkenstein

Quote from: Faust on May 03, 2017, 11:04:03 AM
Isn't closing off debt owed to the EU and getting a proper trade agreement a way cheaper option? I mean this way the valiant Tories can look like they fearlessly stared down the EU, but in WTO rules (21% Import, 21% Export) that's going to rack up to a lot more then 100B, It will probably exceed that in the first six months.

You're using common sense and logic here. Stop that. There is no place here for such things anymore.

Any concessions from the UK to the EU, regardless of what they actually are will be met with howls of disdain from the usual suspects who have now been given enough media attention to start having delusions of relevance. There is a not insignificant number of people who think that farage for instance, is relevant and worth listening to.

Whoever is involved in the negotiations from the UK side can't win. It's impossible. So what do you do when you're playing a game you can't win? Well, think about the last time you played monopoly and there was one person who was clearly going to win. But you didn't like that. So you draw it out for as long as possible hoping for either an incredibly improbable series of dice rolls while hoping the winner will just say fuck it and walk away. Leaving you as the "winner" despite you losing by any measure.

There will also come a point when the negotiators realise that a trade deal cannot be reached within the timescale allowed. This impacts the UK far more than the EU. The UK has every reason to push for one quickly, the EU has no incentive to do so. If I were negotiating for the EU I'd spend a lot of time looking at my watch and giving a slow countdown until the realisation of "you're fucked" starts setting in. Then let the idiots across the table try and appease me by offering whatever they can for a crumb to take back to the PM.

Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Junkenstein

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 03, 2017, 12:31:45 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 03, 2017, 09:51:50 AM

The vast majority of the population have been convinced that Corbyn is literally Satan. So it just becomes a crappy PR exercise convincing the faithful that May is actually the reincarnation of thatcher come to save us all from the horrors of Europe.


Corbyn has that spineless schoolteacher affectation so popular amongst left wingers, spouting condescending "reasonableness" all over the place which is exactly the kind of thing that makes him so easy for the right to hate. The right know how things work in the "real world" and sometimes you just have to don a black shirt and gas a few eggs. The irony is that the "real world" is only like that cos the right wing make it like that with their knuckle dragging retarded shit making a mess all over the place.

I aint throwing my towel in with the left, tho. They sound good on paper but in practice they're just too easy to hate. They wear fucking woolen tanktops without a hint of irony and their ideas are all based on some pie in the sky bullshit that requires all the primates to act like rational conscious entities at all times. Shit, if your masterplan only requires a tiny minority to act like rational conscious entities even for a split second I'm going to call you a fucking idiot destined for failsville.

And then there's the total fuckhead fringe movements. Greens, Libdems, Pirate Party...

These are the choices I'm presented with and then told my vote is important. Au contraire democracy fanboy, I'm pretty sure I get to watch this shithole country burn to the ground regardless of how or even if I choose to vote.

Here's what annoys the tits off of me: For the "business party" it's maddening how little actual business experience the whole bunch of muppets seem to actually have. I've been in many, many contract negotiations from both sides. Sometimes, a deal is just not possible. The client wants you to do the exact same job for 30% less for instance. Or they will use someone else. Fine, thanks, fuck you and I'm out. Sometimes a single line of text in a 50+ page document becomes a point of contention and you'll both spend half a day re-wording it until you get something you both agree on which is often the exact same thing as what you fucking started with. Perhaps with a quick caveat penned in underneath.

But again, sometimes, a deal is just not possible. One party wants something that the other just can't stomach. There's a stack of reasons why: Cost, Timescale, Bribes, lack of experience, not wanting to give another contract to the same firm as this means that no-one else can possibly get the required experience, the list is practically fucking endless. And all of these can easily cause one side to just say "Thank you, I'm going to fuck off now because this is a waste of time and going nowhere". And that's when you're both starting off on friendly terms and want it to work.

Now compare this to the EU deals. Vastly more complex than anything I have dealt with. Pitfalls I can't even think about. Problems you can't even know about until you're deep into it. More paper than a small forest will produce. Starting from a position of mutual disdain. Made worse by a population of idiots who consider any concessions an unforgivable weakness and anything gained as not enough.

How long before it all falls to shit and "no deal" becomes the inevitable result? I'd guess around the new year. Long enough to make a good show of it and enough time to let the papers build themselves into frenzy about how unfair it all is for the poor old UK. 
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Vanadium Gryllz

Shouldn't we also be thinking about setting up trade deals with all the other non-EU entities in the world at some point?

"I was fine until my skin came off.  I'm never going to South Attelboro again."

Junkenstein

Quote from: Xaz on May 03, 2017, 01:22:30 PM
Shouldn't we also be thinking about setting up trade deals with all the other non-EU entities in the world at some point?

Oh yes. And that's where another level of fun comes in.

China will be kind of important as they've got a big stake in power generation here, among other things.

Various middle eastern nations will be expecting arms shipments, as will various african nations.

The USA will be expecting some kind of super, very very good deal. Probably just give them the NHS kind of deal.

Brazil would be good to have an arrangement with, as would argentina but that may cost the falklands. Which isn't too bad, as spain will have already taken Gibraltar back.

Japan and a number of other nations in the far east would be good. So would India. Russia would also be wise.


The problem is, there's barely enough people to handle the EU crap. Certainly far fewer competent people than should be involved too. So either you split the competence between 100+ other nations working on individual deals, do one deal at a time with a "competent" (and I use that term very loosely) team or draft in a bunch of other people who have no idea what they're doing and get them to look busy. The only plausible results are shoddy deals done quickly for PR purposes, probably with very dodgy nations or a never-ending bureaucratic cycle that takes years to make any progress whatsoever.

This is part of the whole clusterfuck, no-one is really able to admit the scale of the undertaking here. Sisyphus would look at this task and think it's excessive.

Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

P3nT4gR4m

What we're dealing with here is ego. On a national scale. Britain, as a nation, seems to think it's something other than the shrivelled up husk of a failed empire with very little to offer an would be partner other than some tax breaks. Actually, since Brexit the tax breaks are mostly off the menu and we'll no doubt see them morph over time into the kind of third world exploitation befitting our financial and political standing.

By 2025 China may well be building residential sweat shops over here but that's only if 3d printing doesn't eat distributed manufacturing in the meantime. If it does then we'll be a footnote in some xmas appeal for the starving xenophobic children.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Cain



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39787353

QuoteTheresa May has accused European politicians of making "threats" against Britain to try to influence the general election result.

The PM launched a stinging attack on the "bureaucrats of Brussels" in a speech outside 10 Downing Street after meeting the Queen.

She said some in Brussels wanted Brexit talks to fail.

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said she was "playing party games with Brexit" to try to win the general election.

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said it was "irresponsible" of her to "poison" the atmosphere with the EU.

And a senior EU source told the BBC the PM's suggestion that officials were trying to affect the election result was "pure fantasy".

Junkenstein

My headlines time machine is a bit iffy, but it's giving curious results:

"Farage finds shit in own pantaloons, 'clearly the work of EU bureaucrats'"

"May promises land of milk and honey inevitable regardless of deal"

"Corbyn preforms black masses 'all the time' says Deputy"

"May causes house prices to raise due to magic".

"Johnson nails deals with short fellows and chupacabras".

"Juncker asks UK to take process seriously for five minutes".

"Farage still unable to figure out who keeps shitting in his pants".

"EU ungrateful for all assistance given during WW2".

"May: No deal strategy worked for Edmonds show, it's the best move now".

"Border chaos as Ex-pats returned to UK".

"EU Nazis cause house prices to crash".

"Proposals to block channel tunnel considered, race is on to be the first side to start".



I have no idea why I bought this thing.

Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Junkenstein

Additional HO HO:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/02/news/brexit-uk-power-electricity-nuclear/index.html

QuoteU.K. lawmakers have warned that plans to exit the European Union pose a major threat to the country's power supplies and nuclear industry.
"The continued operations of the U.K. nuclear industry are at risk," said Iain Wright, head of a cross-party committee that published its findings on Tuesday. "Ministers must act as urgently as possible."
The committee warned that nuclear power plants -- which generate 20% of the country's electricity -- could be forced to be shut down if Britain leaves the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom). Consumers could also face much higher energy costs.

QuotePrime Minister Theresa May insists that Britain will drop its membership in Euratom because of Brexit. The regulator is an EU institution, and it is subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) -- an arrangement that May will not tolerate.
The prime minister's position puts the nuclear industry in a very tough spot: Two years is not enough time to build up a new regulatory body from scratch. And without oversight, critical functions including the transportation of nuclear material and fuel would stop.

It's not the first time I've mentioned potential problems with the power grid here. Fuckups increasingly look like a certainty as there are more than a few ongoing nuclear issues, particularly around transport in the UK.

For example, containers of nuclear materials are tested to be able to withstand drops of around 6M. Trains carrying materials pass through a number of bridges well in excess of 20M. No-one has bothered about fixing this slight problem in 20 years or so and I can't see anyone rushing to fix it anytime soon.

Coming soon, your very own Chernobyl. Sure to attract tourists from miles around. And citizens won't need to worry about keeping the lights on because they'll all glow in the fucking dark.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

POFP

Quote from: Junkenstein on May 03, 2017, 09:25:26 PM
Additional HO HO:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/02/news/brexit-uk-power-electricity-nuclear/index.html

QuoteU.K. lawmakers have warned that plans to exit the European Union pose a major threat to the country's power supplies and nuclear industry.
"The continued operations of the U.K. nuclear industry are at risk," said Iain Wright, head of a cross-party committee that published its findings on Tuesday. "Ministers must act as urgently as possible."
The committee warned that nuclear power plants -- which generate 20% of the country's electricity -- could be forced to be shut down if Britain leaves the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom). Consumers could also face much higher energy costs.

QuotePrime Minister Theresa May insists that Britain will drop its membership in Euratom because of Brexit. The regulator is an EU institution, and it is subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) -- an arrangement that May will not tolerate.
The prime minister's position puts the nuclear industry in a very tough spot: Two years is not enough time to build up a new regulatory body from scratch. And without oversight, critical functions including the transportation of nuclear material and fuel would stop.

It's not the first time I've mentioned potential problems with the power grid here. Fuckups increasingly look like a certainty as there are more than a few ongoing nuclear issues, particularly around transport in the UK.

For example, containers of nuclear materials are tested to be able to withstand drops of around 6M. Trains carrying materials pass through a number of bridges well in excess of 20M. No-one has bothered about fixing this slight problem in 20 years or so and I can't see anyone rushing to fix it anytime soon.

Coming soon, your very own Chernobyl. Sure to attract tourists from miles around. And citizens won't need to worry about keeping the lights on because they'll all glow in the fucking dark.

I feel like the potential for this situation should've been a MAJOR talking point during the debates leading up to the Brexit vote...

Was it not?  :lulz:
This Certified Pope™ reserves the Right to, on occasion, "be a complete dumbass", and otherwise ponder "idiotic" and/or "useless" ideas and other such "tomfoolery." [Aforementioned] are only responsible for the results of these actions and tendencies when they have had their addictive substance of choice for that day.

Being a Product of their Environment's Collective Order and Disorder, [Aforementioned] also reserves the Right to have their ideas, technologies, and otherwise all Intellectual Property stolen, re-purposed, and re-attributed at Will ONLY by other Certified Popes. Corporations, LLC's, and otherwise Capitalist-based organizations are NOT capable of being Certified Popes.

Battering Rams not included.

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: PoFP on May 03, 2017, 10:29:08 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 03, 2017, 09:25:26 PM
Additional HO HO:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/02/news/brexit-uk-power-electricity-nuclear/index.html

QuoteU.K. lawmakers have warned that plans to exit the European Union pose a major threat to the country's power supplies and nuclear industry.
"The continued operations of the U.K. nuclear industry are at risk," said Iain Wright, head of a cross-party committee that published its findings on Tuesday. "Ministers must act as urgently as possible."
The committee warned that nuclear power plants -- which generate 20% of the country's electricity -- could be forced to be shut down if Britain leaves the European Atomic Energy Community (Euratom). Consumers could also face much higher energy costs.

QuotePrime Minister Theresa May insists that Britain will drop its membership in Euratom because of Brexit. The regulator is an EU institution, and it is subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) -- an arrangement that May will not tolerate.
The prime minister's position puts the nuclear industry in a very tough spot: Two years is not enough time to build up a new regulatory body from scratch. And without oversight, critical functions including the transportation of nuclear material and fuel would stop.

It's not the first time I've mentioned potential problems with the power grid here. Fuckups increasingly look like a certainty as there are more than a few ongoing nuclear issues, particularly around transport in the UK.

For example, containers of nuclear materials are tested to be able to withstand drops of around 6M. Trains carrying materials pass through a number of bridges well in excess of 20M. No-one has bothered about fixing this slight problem in 20 years or so and I can't see anyone rushing to fix it anytime soon.

Coming soon, your very own Chernobyl. Sure to attract tourists from miles around. And citizens won't need to worry about keeping the lights on because they'll all glow in the fucking dark.

I feel like the potential for this situation should've been a MAJOR talking point during the debates leading up to the Brexit vote...

Was it not?  :lulz:

Nope. Must. Secure. Borders.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark