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Open Bar: We're going to build a bar, and make the drinks pay for it!

Started by Cain, March 04, 2016, 04:52:44 PM

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Cain

The M-16's calibre is the NATO standard, replacing the  7.62×51mm standard from the 1950s because with improvements to weapon rates of fire, they were responsible for too much recoil and not taking advantage of the improved automatic rate of fire.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Don Coyote on June 24, 2016, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 24, 2016, 09:27:50 PM
Quote from: SuuCal on June 24, 2016, 09:18:13 PM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 24, 2016, 09:05:28 PM
I thought the whole point of the M16 was to be non-lethal:  shoot em in the legs so you also take out a few more, to care for the one that got shot.

Oh yeah. Guns are totally non-fucking-lethal and designed to just maim the other side a bit.
  :ffs:
The logic was for Vietnam, against Guerilla warfare, two birds one stone.  I was surprised by how small the M16's calibre was, compared to say an AK.

:um:

I am saving this entire conversation.  :lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

minuspace

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 24, 2016, 11:11:10 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on June 24, 2016, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 24, 2016, 09:27:50 PM
Quote from: SuuCal on June 24, 2016, 09:18:13 PM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 24, 2016, 09:05:28 PM
I thought the whole point of the M16 was to be non-lethal:  shoot em in the legs so you also take out a few more, to care for the one that got shot.

Oh yeah. Guns are totally non-fucking-lethal and designed to just maim the other side a bit.
  :ffs:
The logic was for Vietnam, against Guerilla warfare, two birds one stone.  I was surprised by how small the M16's calibre was, compared to say an AK.

:um:

I am saving this entire conversation.  :lulz:
LuciferX: Master Tactician.

minuspace

Quote from: Cain on June 24, 2016, 10:44:47 PM
The M-16's calibre is the NATO standard, replacing the  7.62×51mm standard from the 1950s because with improvements to weapon rates of fire, they were responsible for too much recoil and not taking advantage of the improved automatic rate of fire.

At the expense of killing-capacity/range:
QuoteA U.S. Army study found that the 5.56 mm bullets fired from M-4s don't retain enough velocity at distances greater than 1,000 feet (300 meters) to kill an adversary. In hilly regions of Afghanistan, NATO and insurgent forces are often 2,000 to 2,500 feet (600-800 meters) apart.


The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LuciferX on June 25, 2016, 12:51:36 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 24, 2016, 10:44:47 PM
The M-16's calibre is the NATO standard, replacing the  7.62×51mm standard from the 1950s because with improvements to weapon rates of fire, they were responsible for too much recoil and not taking advantage of the improved automatic rate of fire.

At the expense of killing-capacity/range:
QuoteA U.S. Army study found that the 5.56 mm bullets fired from M-4s don't retain enough velocity at distances greater than 1,000 feet (300 meters) to kill an adversary. In hilly regions of Afghanistan, NATO and insurgent forces are often 2,000 to 2,500 feet (600-800 meters) apart.


An M4 is not an M16.  It has a shorter barrel.  Do I need to explain why that is important in a firearm?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

minuspace

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 25, 2016, 12:54:02 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 25, 2016, 12:51:36 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 24, 2016, 10:44:47 PM
The M-16's calibre is the NATO standard, replacing the  7.62×51mm standard from the 1950s because with improvements to weapon rates of fire, they were responsible for too much recoil and not taking advantage of the improved automatic rate of fire.

At the expense of killing-capacity/range:
QuoteA U.S. Army study found that the 5.56 mm bullets fired from M-4s don't retain enough velocity at distances greater than 1,000 feet (300 meters) to kill an adversary. In hilly regions of Afghanistan, NATO and insurgent forces are often 2,000 to 2,500 feet (600-800 meters) apart.


An M4 is not an M16.  It has a shorter barrel.  Do I need to explain why that is important in a firearm?
You may gain some accuracy, however, the round being fired is still essentially the size of a .22.  What surprised me is how they explain most of the bullet's damage coming from how it "tumbles" through it's target.

Don Coyote

Quote from: LuciferX on June 25, 2016, 01:17:29 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 25, 2016, 12:54:02 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 25, 2016, 12:51:36 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 24, 2016, 10:44:47 PM
The M-16's calibre is the NATO standard, replacing the  7.62×51mm standard from the 1950s because with improvements to weapon rates of fire, they were responsible for too much recoil and not taking advantage of the improved automatic rate of fire.

At the expense of killing-capacity/range:
QuoteA U.S. Army study found that the 5.56 mm bullets fired from M-4s don't retain enough velocity at distances greater than 1,000 feet (300 meters) to kill an adversary. In hilly regions of Afghanistan, NATO and insurgent forces are often 2,000 to 2,500 feet (600-800 meters) apart.


An M4 is not an M16.  It has a shorter barrel.  Do I need to explain why that is important in a firearm?
You may gain some accuracy, however, the round being fired is still essentially the size of a .22.  What surprised me is how they explain most of the bullet's damage coming from how it "tumbles" through it's target.


:um:

Suu

Quote from: LuciferX on June 25, 2016, 01:17:29 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 25, 2016, 12:54:02 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 25, 2016, 12:51:36 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 24, 2016, 10:44:47 PM
The M-16's calibre is the NATO standard, replacing the  7.62×51mm standard from the 1950s because with improvements to weapon rates of fire, they were responsible for too much recoil and not taking advantage of the improved automatic rate of fire.

At the expense of killing-capacity/range:
QuoteA U.S. Army study found that the 5.56 mm bullets fired from M-4s don't retain enough velocity at distances greater than 1,000 feet (300 meters) to kill an adversary. In hilly regions of Afghanistan, NATO and insurgent forces are often 2,000 to 2,500 feet (600-800 meters) apart.


An M4 is not an M16.  It has a shorter barrel.  Do I need to explain why that is important in a firearm?
You may gain some accuracy, however, the round being fired is still essentially the size of a .22.  What surprised me is how they explain most of the bullet's damage coming from how it "tumbles" through it's target.

You've never actually fired a .22, have you? They bounce off of fucking kneecaps. M16 ammunition does not bounce off of kneecaps.
Sovereign Episkopos-Princess Kaousuu; Esq., Battle Nun, Bene Gesserit.
Our Lady of Perpetual Confusion; 1st Church of Discordia

"Add a dab of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange, and pretend you're laughing at it."

Don Coyote

It's almost as if none of this information is easily obtainable from the internet.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: LuciferX on June 25, 2016, 01:17:29 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 25, 2016, 12:54:02 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 25, 2016, 12:51:36 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 24, 2016, 10:44:47 PM
The M-16's calibre is the NATO standard, replacing the  7.62×51mm standard from the 1950s because with improvements to weapon rates of fire, they were responsible for too much recoil and not taking advantage of the improved automatic rate of fire.

At the expense of killing-capacity/range:
QuoteA U.S. Army study found that the 5.56 mm bullets fired from M-4s don't retain enough velocity at distances greater than 1,000 feet (300 meters) to kill an adversary. In hilly regions of Afghanistan, NATO and insurgent forces are often 2,000 to 2,500 feet (600-800 meters) apart.


An M4 is not an M16.  It has a shorter barrel.  Do I need to explain why that is important in a firearm?
You may gain some accuracy, however, the round being fired is still essentially the size of a .22.  What surprised me is how they explain most of the bullet's damage coming from how it "tumbles" through it's target.

Yes, the tumble is the gory bit.  But the longer barrel of the M16 also means more of the propellant burns, meaning the round goes a hell of a lot faster, which drastically increases the maximum range of the bullet AND increases the tumble effect (gruesomely known as "putting some English on it").

And the tumble can kind of suck, because I've had rounds hit twigs and go spinning off into the blue.  But when it hits a human, the tumble makes it follow the bones, so you hit the guy in the leg, and it maybe comes out of his head.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cain

I think I'm going to make a new policy that, when students try to convince me to let a guest of the opposite sex, late at night, come up to their room, to say to them "so the genital herpes cleared up?  Awesome" and give them two thumbs up.

Cain


Suu

Quote from: Cain on June 25, 2016, 05:13:40 AM
I think I'm going to make a new policy that, when students try to convince me to let a guest of the opposite sex, late at night, come up to their room, to say to them "so the genital herpes cleared up?  Awesome" and give them two thumbs up.

:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Even better, to catch said partner in the hall or such, and go, "Tell so-and-so that the pharmacist called, his/her Valtrex (or insert UK version here) scrip is ready to be picked up tomorrow."
Sovereign Episkopos-Princess Kaousuu; Esq., Battle Nun, Bene Gesserit.
Our Lady of Perpetual Confusion; 1st Church of Discordia

"Add a dab of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange, and pretend you're laughing at it."

The Wizard Joseph

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 25, 2016, 04:57:29 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 25, 2016, 01:17:29 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 25, 2016, 12:54:02 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 25, 2016, 12:51:36 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 24, 2016, 10:44:47 PM
The M-16's calibre is the NATO standard, replacing the  7.62×51mm standard from the 1950s because with improvements to weapon rates of fire, they were responsible for too much recoil and not taking advantage of the improved automatic rate of fire.

At the expense of killing-capacity/range:
QuoteA U.S. Army study found that the 5.56 mm bullets fired from M-4s don't retain enough velocity at distances greater than 1,000 feet (300 meters) to kill an adversary. In hilly regions of Afghanistan, NATO and insurgent forces are often 2,000 to 2,500 feet (600-800 meters) apart.


An M4 is not an M16.  It has a shorter barrel.  Do I need to explain why that is important in a firearm?
You may gain some accuracy, however, the round being fired is still essentially the size of a .22.  What surprised me is how they explain most of the bullet's damage coming from how it "tumbles" through it's target.

Yes, the tumble is the gory bit.  But the longer barrel of the M16 also means more of the propellant burns, meaning the round goes a hell of a lot faster, which drastically increases the maximum range of the bullet AND increases the tumble effect (gruesomely known as "putting some English on it").

And the tumble can kind of suck, because I've had rounds hit twigs and go spinning off into the blue.  But when it hits a human, the tumble makes it follow the bones, so you hit the guy in the leg, and it maybe comes out of his head.

I think there's a similar term in pool for the kind of spin that can ride a rail or directly effect cue ball position after its first strike.

Your bone would be the rail and your flesh the "air" it's tearing through. Nice.

I always liked the term, "putting some English on it". Now there's something more!
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

Don Coyote

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on June 25, 2016, 08:06:22 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 25, 2016, 04:57:29 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 25, 2016, 01:17:29 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 25, 2016, 12:54:02 AM
Quote from: LuciferX on June 25, 2016, 12:51:36 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 24, 2016, 10:44:47 PM
The M-16's calibre is the NATO standard, replacing the  7.62×51mm standard from the 1950s because with improvements to weapon rates of fire, they were responsible for too much recoil and not taking advantage of the improved automatic rate of fire.

At the expense of killing-capacity/range:
QuoteA U.S. Army study found that the 5.56 mm bullets fired from M-4s don't retain enough velocity at distances greater than 1,000 feet (300 meters) to kill an adversary. In hilly regions of Afghanistan, NATO and insurgent forces are often 2,000 to 2,500 feet (600-800 meters) apart.


An M4 is not an M16.  It has a shorter barrel.  Do I need to explain why that is important in a firearm?
You may gain some accuracy, however, the round being fired is still essentially the size of a .22.  What surprised me is how they explain most of the bullet's damage coming from how it "tumbles" through it's target.

Yes, the tumble is the gory bit.  But the longer barrel of the M16 also means more of the propellant burns, meaning the round goes a hell of a lot faster, which drastically increases the maximum range of the bullet AND increases the tumble effect (gruesomely known as "putting some English on it").

And the tumble can kind of suck, because I've had rounds hit twigs and go spinning off into the blue.  But when it hits a human, the tumble makes it follow the bones, so you hit the guy in the leg, and it maybe comes out of his head.

I think there's a similar term in pool for the kind of spin that can ride a rail or directly effect cue ball position after its first strike.

Your bone would be the rail and your flesh the "air" it's tearing through. Nice.

I always liked the term, "putting some English on it". Now there's something more!

Shit like this always makes me uncomfortable when civilians say it.