Possible military coup in Turkey

[MMIX]

Do you have a source on that other than Russia Today?

I'm not saying it's not true.  However Russia Today has paid Assange's wages before now, and given asylum to Snowden, and Russia has a longstanding conflict with Turkey, and has a long history of politically distorted reporting.  We're not exactly talking neutral parties here.

Hmm, good point. I don't think I actually believe in neutral parties any more. And no I haven't seen that report anywhere else, well except Wikileaks twitter a/c, - but then it is too hot and I haven't  really look

[Junkenstein]

15K+ teachers suspended in Turkey.

Education standards set for new record.

[MMIX]

15K+ teachers suspended in Turkey.

Education standards set for new record.

And it just keeps getting better

[Junkenstein]

As an aside, is it just me or is rt becoming a much more used (and in some cases where I've been shown articles, apparently respected) source?

I'm specifically not talking about the article above, but ones on 'cloud over lhc means doom' , crop circles made by Obama aliens eat village' kind if shit.

It's strange, while I'm no great fan of the BBC I would not consider the two comparable.

[MMIX]

I'm certainly coming across it more often.

[Pæs]

I've tried to find a rough count of total judges and similar in Turkey and not had much luck. UK Stats indicate 19.5K serving magistrates in 2015. Assuming the judicial system in Turkey has similar numbers (Unlikey, 10M more people there than here) then it's still a massive percentage to lose. Replacing them with suitably qualified and experiened people will be practically impossible so it's going to be promotions all round to those favourable to the ongoing system.

http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/eighthsurvey/8sv.pdf
Not sure how accurate this or how it maps to the 19.5K serving magistrates in UK as it records UK as having 1,330 judges. Says Turkey has 6,041, which is a figure I've seen repeated elsewhere.

[Junkenstein]

Thanks, will get into that tomorrow and see if there's anything handy

[Junkenstein]

BBC now reporting over 50K in purges. We all know how this goes so universities, deans, students and media no surprise.

[Junkenstein]

Now it's "travel restrictions for academics".

Memo to self to make some kind of game from this and eu shite

[Junkenstein]

State of emergency now declared.

BBC summary of purge so far:

Although accurate details are difficult to come by, this is the current list:
7,500 soldiers have been detained, including 118 generals and admirals
8,000 police have been removed from their posts and 1,000 arrested
3,000 members of the judiciary, including 1,481 judges, have been suspended
15,200 education ministry officials have lost their jobs
21,000 private school teachers have had their licences revoked
1,577 university deans (faculty heads) have been asked to resign
1,500 finance ministry staff have been removed
492 clerics, preachers and religious teachers have been fired
393 social policy ministry staff have been dismissed
257 prime minister's office staff have been removed
100 intelligence officials have been suspended
The list may be incomplete because the situation is constantly changing. But it is clear that the purge has affected well over 58,000 people.

This would be impressive if it wasn't so fucking terrifying.

[MMIX]

Its a damned good job that they can't get out of their bloody country, Smithers, otherwise we would be up to out elbows in illegal Turks along with all those other foreign Johnnies!
[/John Bullshit ]

[Junkenstein]

I've tried to find a rough count of total judges and similar in Turkey and not had much luck. UK Stats indicate 19.5K serving magistrates in 2015. Assuming the judicial system in Turkey has similar numbers (Unlikey, 10M more people there than here) then it's still a massive percentage to lose. Replacing them with suitably qualified and experiened people will be practically impossible so it's going to be promotions all round to those favourable to the ongoing system.

http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/eighthsurvey/8sv.pdf
Not sure how accurate this or how it maps to the 19.5K serving magistrates in UK as it records UK as having 1,330 judges. Says Turkey has 6,041, which is a figure I've seen repeated elsewhere.

I've been skimming this doc on and off for a few days. There's some interesting stuff in there but there's a few issues and errors too. For example the UK - England/Scotland/NI/wales individual listings don't always tally and the ones that do have scotland as the UK figure.

That said, for a quick general guide to the levels of Law enforcement and their makeup worldwide, it's pretty fucking handy. A little dated but no reason not to be OK as an informal guide. It's also quite amusing when you see blank or particularly low/high numbers in some instances and gives a fair indication to the state of a country in some regards. For example, no-one would really claim that Belarus is free from corruption, but having 2 recorded embezzelments in a year seems a touch low. Boliva slightly better with 4, which makes the UK seem like a pro with 18K+. Also see page 57 and laugh at the number of countries not listed.

US figures particularly notable by frequent absence. Irritating because that would be a very interesting breakdown in the per 100K list. Suspect figures will not be forthcoming anytime soon due to the consistent level of violence that US police use. Recent events would make me think there's going to be no rush to make any numbers public quickly, if ever. Where figures are listed it does not indicate the US to be substantially any safer than some countries which could be charitably described as "Hellholes".


Thanks Paes, I'll be having some fun with this later in the week.

[Cain]

So Russia and Turkey have kissed and made up, in light of the coup attempt.

Erdogan is unofficially blaming NATO and America for the coup, and allowing those who officially blame them to speak freely.  The evidence thus far seems quite flimsy, though who knows for sure?

What is known is that Turkey had been planning to mend relations with Russia even before the coup itself.  Check out this Foreign Affairs article, and take note specifically of the date: http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/12/turkeys-deep-state-has-a-secret-backchannel-to-assad/

For those of you wondering, it was mentioned way back in 2008 that the covert "Ergenekon" movement was moving towards Russian "Eurasianist" figures around Alexander Dugin - which makes sense given both have a kind of mystical fascist orientation.  And of course, the two men named above were allegedly part of Ergenekon, and met with...Dugin.

If Russian rapproachment had been planned for months now, it raises questions about the coup to me.  Again, no evidence, but the coup not only allows Erdogan to clean shop, it gives him justification for dicking over NATO by palling around with Putin.  And the benefits go both ways - Russia commercially benefits from sanctions on Turkey being dropped, and the geopolitical benefits of bringing another NATO ally into his close orbit (Hungary is also suspiciously close to Russia on political issues), especially one where American nuclear missiles are located, are significant.

Maybe NATO did try and put a coup in motion, just because Erdogan is a git, or because they got wind of this rapidly developing relationship with Russia.  Maybe some Ergenekon types were included in the coup planning, only to betray the thing to Erdogan in the first place.  Or maybe Ergenekon's leaders let the deadbeats in their organisation have a shot at glory while selling them out, throwing them to the wolves (lol).  Or maybe Erdogan is the dupe in this scenario, and it was Russia and Ergenekon that organised the show.  Who can say?

[Doktor Howl]

This is the only Turkey thread I could find, and it's probably not unrelated.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/if-turkey-implodes-heres-who-else-will-get-hurt/ar-BBLK0WB?ocid=spartanntp

[Cain]

Turkey financially supports the rebels in Syria.

With Turkish money being worth less, now the rebel fighters have less, and Ankara is less inclined to spend their remaining currency on them.  This will ultimately make it easier for the Assad regime and its Russian backers to defeat them.

I'm not saying Trump is a puppet with Putin' hand up his arse, but it is amazing how he keeps doing these things which help Russia's foreign policy objectives.