Author Topic: One Community  (Read 4977 times)

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: One Community
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2016, 03:36:12 am »
That tone rhymes with "Men Back".

CHRIST ON A STICK, what the HELL is wrong with you?  You lost your mind?    :eek:

Anyone who wants to know what he's talking about, PM LMNO or I.  Speak in pig latin.  And for fuck's sake repeat nothing in the open.
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Re: One Community
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2016, 04:39:24 am »
Yes, two friends went and spent a month living and working there.

Cool. What other hands-on research did you do before starting this endeavor? Is there a link to your CV on your website somewhere?
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


JaeSabol

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Re: One Community
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2016, 05:47:36 am »
http://www.onecommunityglobal.org/jae-sabol

I articulated the goal and began the organization process but the project really isn't about me. We've had well over 200 volunteers contribute to the designs and development to this point. These are the most notable: http://www.onecommunityglobal.org/collaborators/ There are many others who donated time anonymously or have contributed significantly with their questions, input, resource suggestions, or comments. This forum is a great example of that, leading to the changes in the homepage and Overview page. All questions and comments we receive by email or social media are also integrated when helpful.

trix

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Re: One Community
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2016, 06:41:13 am »
I want you to succeed.  I really do.  However, there are just some things I believe will turn a lot of people away, many of the exact people that could help something like this the most.  For one, the extreme wordy buzzwordiness of much of the website.  It feels like some mandatory meeting bullshit at a corporate job, where some asshole who has never done my job preaches psuedoscience like Neuro-linguistic Programming at me.

I recommend trying to weed out as much of that vibe from the project as possible.  Personal beliefs aside, anything considered questionable, scientifically, should be avoided in the project.

Other than that I'd definitely place a more technological and engineering focus on the website as well.  Or maybe simply make a section dedicated to the technical minded.  I know quite a lot of highly creative and frankly quite brilliant science people that could offer all sorts of expertise if they can be convinced your project is based on sound thinking and realistic expectations.  Many of them right here in these forums.  Multiple in this very thread.

People can agree most to things at their most simple.  Using modern technology to build a sustainable community without sacrificing a high first-world standard of living is a very agreeable goal.

I just wish it could be that, exclusively.  When you tack on all the other stuff suddenly we have to accept your way of lots of things instead of just accepting a better way of building communities.  I have to take a class to understand what Consensus is?  Come on.

That said, it at least opens up the option of someone else creating such a community as a purely scientific endeavor, using the materials and resources One Community provides.  That part of what you call open source I'm 110% on board with.
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Re: One Community
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2016, 07:17:26 am »
Oh and the funding.  I really don't understand the funding.  I read more into it and from what I can tell, you're waiting for one wealthy entity with 10 million dollars to spend to suddenly get super excited about sustainable living, or you're expecting tons of people to crowd-fund a ton of money For The Highest Good Of All.  I just don't get which.  Or why that seems the logical thing to happen.

My concerns come out more negatively than I intend.  Let me put it this way.  If you could convince one specific person I know that this was a serious and profitable venture, he could likely arrange your funding.  All of it.  I'm not making any offers or anything, your website would absolutely turn him away, I'm just saying if you could convince someone like him, I would have a lot more faith in the project's financial prospects.  The idea of living without money is great, but until the whole world gets there the business plan for revenue has to be rock solid to warrant that level of investment.  And so does the credentials of everyone involved on the business end.
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JaeSabol

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Re: One Community
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2016, 08:26:43 am »
We're working on it. The toughest thing about our project is that opinions differ widely about how to proceed. In the case of the language of our site, there are those that say the exact opposite and actually think we should have a more "spiritual" tone. There are those who say we've got too much information and others who love that we have so much. There are those who hate all the imagery and those who think we should have more of it. I've also been approached by people saying they'd fund us if we made it a Christian venture. Others have said they'd fund us if we'd turn it into a clearly for-profit venture. We've had a couple people say they could fund us that turned out to not be real too. Most of those people have wasted a lot of time and clarified that we've got more work to do before we're ready to seriously seek funding.

Rewriting the site to eliminate our core value of "Highest Good" isn't something we're going to do but we encourage anyone who's interested to create something purely scientific if they like. My opinion is that we need a lot more people working to create more things that are open source and with positive intent. The more formats and the more diversity of how people choose to do this, the better. More options are needed since everyone has different opinions on how to do it, and what they want to focus on. Our project is just one example of how to do it and we've gone to great lengths to make it clear we're not trying to convert or convince anyone.

The redesign we're working on will segregate the philosophical/values-based aspects more. My purpose here hasn't been to debate these points though, or gather ideas for massive overhauls of how we're doing and/or presenting things. I came here just to clarify that we're real people doing real work and not a scam. We're not asking for money, are fully open source, non-profit, all-volunteer and not pushing any ideology, and we now have tens of thousands of work into the project.

If there are those who think it's something they want to participate in, we can use the help. For those who still want to bash me or the project, that's fine too. I'm just not sure what the point is since there's lots of organizations doing unarguably negative things and also not open source, non-profit, or all-volunteer. Those organization are, in my opinion, much more deserving of the negativity and bashing.

I'm signing off here now but can be reached through our site. I hope the time invested here was in some way helpful, your input was helpful to me.


Junkenstein

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Re: One Community
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2016, 09:04:37 am »
Awake. Jae, if you wait a few hours I'll respond to your points. You've mainly raised more questions.

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Junkenstein

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Re: One Community
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2016, 09:55:32 am »



4. Debating this point is probably not the best use of my time here - - - It is worth noting the fallacy though. It's quite a problematic flaw.

5. Our financials are not significant enough to warrant this yet and we don't have anyone volunteering to do the work. If you'd like to create something you'd be happy with, you are invited to join the team and do so. What you describe is something we want. Your comment on #6, however, makes it clear our project isn't something you'd wish to help with.
  ----You've been running over 6 years and this aspect isn't in order? Do you have any idea how much more dodgy this response makes the whole thing look? It's a relatively simple and reasonable question. By not answering, you do have to ask about how you're currently supporting yourself and family with no donations coming in and putting so much time into this. Is the coaching money really good?


6. See link above for why focusing on fundraising is not the best use of our time right now. I understand that this is a reason you wouldn't desire to help us. I'm sorry this is somehow "insulting" to you. Our site and ongoing updates blog shares what we've achieved and are achieving.

    ---- It's Insulting because EVERYONE who has worked as any kind of consultant, for any length of time, will have had so many offers to work for free that it just gets you quite jaded. You need people who are actually skilled and committed for 40+ hours a week on a regular basis to make shit happen. Deal with the world as it is and you know you need money to accomplish practically everything at this stage. A noble goal will remain that unless you take practical steps towards this, like funding.

Give this context. From your figures, the project has had over 200 involved and around 10K man hours, over six years. I could break that down for you a little more, but you can surely see the math. Even still, over that period if it was staged somewhat correctly this would at least be in a viable position to move forward. (FYI, about me - I've been dealing with small/medium/international/NGO business for about 15 years, mainly fixing idiot organisational issues, fuckups and generally getting shit done. This is why when I see responses like some of these I don't think you're really interested in pushing this unless magic crowdfunding money drops into your hands. Instead, you're helping people pad their CV until an actual job comes along and then they just drop away. Strange how unpaid interns lack loyalty to the cause.


 

7. Yes, volunteering with us has generated business for some of our partners. We also refer to the directly since none of us our operating as consultants. That said, the vast majority of people who volunteer with us aren't doing if for financial gain. Most people volunteer with us because they believe in what we're doing and want to help and/or they have free time and skills and are looking for a way to apply those skills beyond making up a project of their own.

---- Well, can we get some figures and numbers? If you can demonstrate that you're at least building some kind of mutual business network then you might just be able to ask people to help you and actually show a bit of that win-win you keep mentioning. 

8. I consider these criticisms fair. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. You ask, "Do you consider yourself suitably qualified and experienced to run a project of this nature?" I'm the only one doing it. Anyone could take what we've done so far and do it themselves if they want. There are definitely people way more qualified than me, but they aren't doing the work. My feeling answering your questions is that I'm being interviewed by you for a job or large-scale funding and I'm guessing that is not the case and wondering what the value of this is for you or me. If you think we're a scam, I'm ok with that.

---- I'll work pro-bono in the right situation, and with the right people. I honestly don't think you've had any dealings with the construction sectors and hard realities when actually kicking off a project. You've got pretty much no history or experience with this kind of stuff. I'm not saying that stops you, it's just going to be a challenge for every professional you work with when shit doesn't work out quite as planned.

And again, the people more qualified than you are doing the work. They're just getting paid for it instead of making videos about it.

9. We've been working since 2010. We achieved non-profit status in 2011. Again, we're a 100% volunteer organization so the process has been much slower than if we were writing checks. Listing our milestones is truly not a good use of my time. Look at what we've created (now easier to find on the site) and if you like it, great. If not, that's ok too. The bottom line is we're a group doing something and organizing likeminded people. It sounds like we don't pass your criteria for evaluation. We're working to get there for you and others, but not there yet.

 - -- 6 years. I wasn't asking for much here, just a few big achievements. You shouldn't be shy about your achievements, you're going to need to shout about them in order to make progress. First follower and all that. What have you actually done?

I saw something about a crowdfunding campaign towards the end of the year (Hopefully!). Are you actually serious? Does someone need to light a fire under your arse to give you some kind of sense of urgency?


10. "Other orgs with similar goals" is something I'll leave for others to evaluate and list. This could be broken down into components like housing, food, etc. or evaluated based on global-change goals, or other criteria. I'm happy for all other groups taking action. What we've accomplished and are accomplishing is what our site is all about and how this compares to the projects of others is subjective.

- - Again, can I have a couple of names/examples? Nigel had one, they've built something.
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Junkenstein

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Re: One Community
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2016, 10:19:03 am »
Also, last thing:

Quote
If you think we're a scam, I'm ok with that.

Holy fuck.

This..... this is not a good response. I assure you, you do not want to be OK with people thinking your non-profit is a scam. This is the kind of thing lawyers would suggest you object to because otherwise it makes it all look like a massive scam.
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Junkenstein

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Re: One Community
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2016, 02:11:28 pm »
Incidentally, I had a quick look at "Man Sack". What an astonishing prick. A marketer who writes a book like "What would bill hicks say" and not one of you came up with the fact that he would scream at him to kill himself for being a marketer? Poor show.
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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: One Community
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2016, 11:23:00 pm »
http://www.onecommunityglobal.org/jae-sabol

I articulated the goal and began the organization process but the project really isn't about me. We've had well over 200 volunteers contribute to the designs and development to this point. These are the most notable: http://www.onecommunityglobal.org/collaborators/ There are many others who donated time anonymously or have contributed significantly with their questions, input, resource suggestions, or comments. This forum is a great example of that, leading to the changes in the homepage and Overview page. All questions and comments we receive by email or social media are also integrated when helpful.

That's not really a CV: it doesn't detail your experience in any meaningful way. It is very, very vague, and just says that you have all this experience without actually outlining any of it at all. There are no names, dates, position titles, responsibilities, or accomplishments listed, as one would expect of a professional CV. One of the things that I am having a hard time with regarding your project has nothing to do with any concern that it's a scam, but rather, that it seems very pie-in-the-sky; much more like you are designing a fantasy role-playing game than an actual community that will manifest in real life. The fact that you have plans for a whole city, but haven't actualized so much as a pilot community, makes it seem much more like playacting than a serious endeavor.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: One Community
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2016, 11:36:56 pm »
A note: Jae, we are not attacking because we want to tear your project down. We are probing for relevant information because you have caught our interest. The questions that are being asked here are questions that your organization should have answers to, as they are questions that any serious potential partner or donor will ask.

If this organization is more than just a website fueled by youthful pipe dreams, you will want and need to be prepared to answer these kinds of questions. You will want to prepare a real, professional CV with names, dates, and references, that tells prospective partners who you are and what your experience is. I have a degree in sustainability, among others, and there are many existing communities out there in the world that are doing similar things to what you would like to accomplish, but on a small scale. That is something that you will probably need to do - or at least to visit to gain experience and references - before you are able to convince donors to give you money to buy land. Just saying "I have lots of experience doing this" is not enough; you need to detail your experience in a professional way.

I like your ideas, but I have to tell you, right now your website looks like children playacting.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


JaeSabol

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Re: One Community
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2016, 06:55:54 pm »
I appreciate the feedback and will integrate it to the best of my ability.

I'll give you equally candid feedback. This feels more like trolling than an attempt to be constructive or helpful. Your guys' attitude towards me and and the project, including repeated profanity, personal attacks and questions that go far beyond focusing on facts and data, and general rudeness lead me to believe you'll never be satisfied with my answers.

I'll keep working. If you run into others like me actually getting things done and working to create a better world, I hope your approach will be more constructive. If it is, you'll probably maintain a more receptive audience. Reading your replies, I think there's more abuse here than help and I'm returning to focusing on what needs to be done rather than continue to participate here. As I said, I'll integrate what you've said though. Thank you for the input.

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Re: One Community
« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2016, 07:04:39 pm »
As a wise man once said, "extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence."

The burden is on you to provide.

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Re: One Community
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2016, 07:07:54 pm »
WAH I SHOWED UP IN SOMEONE ELSE'S SPACE AND THEY DIDN'T IMMEDIATELY SUCK MY FUTURIST DICK.


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