Futurism up for discussion.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I wonder if a low-value, universal commodity, like fresh water, might not serve as a commodity basis for a universal currency.

Joe, I'm gonna step back for just a second and let you try to see the obvious flaw with that.

I'll give it a shot, and can guess at particular things, but what's obvious to you I can't guess. I've never tried to think of it in real terms before though, so here we go.

It's of almost no real value and any real commodity exchange would require quite a bit more energy than the water could ever represent. A traincar full of gold's value is such that actual relative cost of transportation would be negligible, if high risk.

Now that I think about it the idea of a low-val commodity currency is just flaxscrip in a different wrapper. Kinda funny idea, totally unworkable in the current system.

The water thing might work if it was profoundly high-value and strongly guaranteed somehow, but that would be either post-apocalyptic or perhaps interstellar scifi and not at all real world.

All I got for the moment. Anywhere near the mark?

Rich people hoard up the medium of exchange.  while that's already happening (see Nestle, collection of shitbags), I don't really think encouraging rich bastards to hoard up the potable water is a really good idea.

Also, the bottom rung dies of thirst or cholera, more or less guaranteed.

[The Wizard Joseph]

I wonder if a low-value, universal commodity, like fresh water, might not serve as a commodity basis for a universal currency.

Joe, I'm gonna step back for just a second and let you try to see the obvious flaw with that.

I'll give it a shot, and can guess at particular things, but what's obvious to you I can't guess. I've never tried to think of it in real terms before though, so here we go.

It's of almost no real value and any real commodity exchange would require quite a bit more energy than the water could ever represent. A traincar full of gold's value is such that actual relative cost of transportation would be negligible, if high risk.

Now that I think about it the idea of a low-val commodity currency is just flaxscrip in a different wrapper. Kinda funny idea, totally unworkable in the current system.

The water thing might work if it was profoundly high-value and strongly guaranteed somehow, but that would be either post-apocalyptic or perhaps interstellar scifi and not at all real world.

All I got for the moment. Anywhere near the mark?

Rich people hoard up the medium of exchange.  while that's already happening (see Nestle, collection of shitbags), I don't really think encouraging rich bastards to hoard up the potable water is a really good idea.

Also, the bottom rung dies of thirst or cholera, more or less guaranteed.

Yeah. I'm almost sorry I thought it. It's a bad idea. I see how coming up with ideas that will ACTUALLY improve things is a pretty tall order that needs to be accurately modeled and thought through thoroughly.

[CBXTN]

I'm imagining a future where collective humanity starts becoming so scientifically advance that it would lead itself into existential paranoia.

We, collectively, begin recognizing that our material reality has no exact specificity. We come to a point where we cannot measure quantities and lengths; a society that realizes a table is not 1 meter long, but actually 1.002735483946493493644894 meters long and still unable to grasp its exact length.

The future is a society which has lost its footing in semantics. We begin to lose sense of qualitative words such as adjectives. Is a movie exciting, or is our nervous system creating the excitement within us, or is it found in the photons colliding into our retinas? What exactly is this sensation we call "exciting"?

The future is a society that recognizes biology on a very intimate level:

You might discover that your gangly arms,
that nubby twig protruding from your groin,
or those lactating mounds swelling on your chest are repugnantly bizarre.
You might discover that the rubbery sheath you call "skin"
is actually a host of cells, living and breathing together -
You, a walking sack of blood, are a conglomerate of little creatures
evolved over eons to symbiotically cohabitate.
You, covered in a protein filament called "hair",
are a squirming tower of molecular animals
randomly generated by the quirks of perpetual chemical reactions

Don't ponder too deeply that "plants" absorb carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen.
You might discover that air is not the space between bodies,
but rather, a connective tissue - a thick web of matter eternally flowing bodies into bodies.
Your freaky alien form is not autonomous.
It has been shaped and twisted in a decadent symbiosis 
with other festering organisms you previously considered separate from yourself;
protons, electrons, nitrogen, sodium, magnesium, sulfur, iron, water, soil, glucose, viruses, bacteria, algea, fungus, amphibians, fowl, forests, dogs and cattle. Organs within organs within organs wrought in a cauldron of magnetic currents and gravitational pressure, heated by the unceasing thermonuclear eruption of a helium ball.

What a strange zoo imprisoned to an abominable mutant.
We were not caught by the horror- we were born into the horror.
"God" is the unimaginable behemoth
of creatures multiplying inside creatures multiplying inside creatures.


***

Eventually humanity goes insane in the chaotic void of existential anguish/mania. Only a few survive a mass suicide - The spiritually ascended and the hopelessly ignorant.

   

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

As for the economy, meh, I think that shit is toast and we'll need a new one.

It doesn't work that way.  No.  You cannot just hand out Newbux and make everything okay.  You can't even get rid of the federal reserve (if you're the kind of person that wants to). You can't go back to silver and you can't go back to gold (there isn't enough of either), and if you just replace one fiat currency with another, the problems all remain PLUS less people have confidence in it.

We're going to have to figure out how to fix THIS one.

I wonder if a low-value, universal commodity, like fresh water, might not serve as a commodity basis for a universal currency. Otherwise I don't think that the system can be fixed given the unfortunate priorities in our value systems.

If shit gets bad enough those values could change dramatically whether we want them to or not.

Ummmmm

I am just going to assume that the rest of the board already took care of answering this.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm imagining a future where collective humanity starts becoming so scientifically advance that it would lead itself into existential paranoia.

We, collectively, begin recognizing that our material reality has no exact specificity. We come to a point where we cannot measure quantities and lengths; a society that realizes a table is not 1 meter long, but actually 1.002735483946493493644894 meters long and still unable to grasp its exact length.

The future is a society which has lost its footing in semantics. We begin to lose sense of qualitative words such as adjectives. Is a movie exciting, or is our nervous system creating the excitement within us, or is it found in the photons colliding into our retinas? What exactly is this sensation we call "exciting"?

The future is a society that recognizes biology on a very intimate level:

-snip-
***

Eventually humanity goes insane in the chaotic void of existential anguish/mania. Only a few survive a mass suicide - The spiritually ascended and the hopelessly ignorant.

Totally, that's why all molecular and cellular biologists have wilted into puddles of existential angst and just can't function.

Oh wait, nope, that's not it. Turns out that problem goes away after you leave intellectual adolescence.

[CBXTN]

I'm imagining a future where collective humanity starts becoming so scientifically advance that it would lead itself into existential paranoia.

We, collectively, begin recognizing that our material reality has no exact specificity. We come to a point where we cannot measure quantities and lengths; a society that realizes a table is not 1 meter long, but actually 1.002735483946493493644894 meters long and still unable to grasp its exact length.

The future is a society which has lost its footing in semantics. We begin to lose sense of qualitative words such as adjectives. Is a movie exciting, or is our nervous system creating the excitement within us, or is it found in the photons colliding into our retinas? What exactly is this sensation we call "exciting"?

The future is a society that recognizes biology on a very intimate level:

-snip-
***

Eventually humanity goes insane in the chaotic void of existential anguish/mania. Only a few survive a mass suicide - The spiritually ascended and the hopelessly ignorant.

Totally, that's why all molecular and cellular biologists have wilted into puddles of existential angst and just can't function.

Oh wait, nope, that's not it. Turns out that problem goes away after you leave intellectual adolescence.

I might still be an adolescent - some nights I rise in the middle of the night panicked and anxious about why I'm in my own body, what exactly is my body made of, what is it I'm experiencing and why is it that things are infinitely small and large, and other general questions of reality and purpose(lessness).

It freaks me out and I hope it calms down. Some part of me wishes I could communicate the absurdity to my grandparents, but they are too busy watching the Democratic National Convention on television.

[The Wizard Joseph]

As for the economy, meh, I think that shit is toast and we'll need a new one.

It doesn't work that way.  No.  You cannot just hand out Newbux and make everything okay.  You can't even get rid of the federal reserve (if you're the kind of person that wants to). You can't go back to silver and you can't go back to gold (there isn't enough of either), and if you just replace one fiat currency with another, the problems all remain PLUS less people have confidence in it.

We're going to have to figure out how to fix THIS one.

I wonder if a low-value, universal commodity, like fresh water, might not serve as a commodity basis for a universal currency. Otherwise I don't think that the system can be fixed given the unfortunate priorities in our value systems.

If shit gets bad enough those values could change dramatically whether we want them to or not.

Ummmmm

I am just going to assume that the rest of the board already took care of answering this.

Yeah. ITT I discovered how a simple seeming idea can get millions dead. Going to switch over to attempting to ask intelligent questions should any occur to me rather than blather about what I think.

[POFP]

I'm imagining a future where collective humanity starts becoming so scientifically advance that it would lead itself into existential paranoia.

We, collectively, begin recognizing that our material reality has no exact specificity. We come to a point where we cannot measure quantities and lengths; a society that realizes a table is not 1 meter long, but actually 1.002735483946493493644894 meters long and still unable to grasp its exact length.

The future is a society which has lost its footing in semantics. We begin to lose sense of qualitative words such as adjectives. Is a movie exciting, or is our nervous system creating the excitement within us, or is it found in the photons colliding into our retinas? What exactly is this sensation we call "exciting"?

The future is a society that recognizes biology on a very intimate level:

You might discover that your gangly arms,
that nubby twig protruding from your groin,
or those lactating mounds swelling on your chest are repugnantly bizarre.
You might discover that the rubbery sheath you call "skin"
is actually a host of cells, living and breathing together -
You, a walking sack of blood, are a conglomerate of little creatures
evolved over eons to symbiotically cohabitate.
You, covered in a protein filament called "hair",
are a squirming tower of molecular animals
randomly generated by the quirks of perpetual chemical reactions

Don't ponder too deeply that "plants" absorb carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen.
You might discover that air is not the space between bodies,
but rather, a connective tissue - a thick web of matter eternally flowing bodies into bodies.
Your freaky alien form is not autonomous.
It has been shaped and twisted in a decadent symbiosis 
with other festering organisms you previously considered separate from yourself;
protons, electrons, nitrogen, sodium, magnesium, sulfur, iron, water, soil, glucose, viruses, bacteria, algea, fungus, amphibians, fowl, forests, dogs and cattle. Organs within organs within organs wrought in a cauldron of magnetic currents and gravitational pressure, heated by the unceasing thermonuclear eruption of a helium ball.

What a strange zoo imprisoned to an abominable mutant.
We were not caught by the horror- we were born into the horror.
"God" is the unimaginable behemoth
of creatures multiplying inside creatures multiplying inside creatures.


***

Eventually humanity goes insane in the chaotic void of existential anguish/mania. Only a few survive a mass suicide - The spiritually ascended and the hopelessly ignorant.

not wat ur mum said

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

As for the economy, meh, I think that shit is toast and we'll need a new one.

It doesn't work that way.  No.  You cannot just hand out Newbux and make everything okay.  You can't even get rid of the federal reserve (if you're the kind of person that wants to). You can't go back to silver and you can't go back to gold (there isn't enough of either), and if you just replace one fiat currency with another, the problems all remain PLUS less people have confidence in it.

We're going to have to figure out how to fix THIS one.

I wonder if a low-value, universal commodity, like fresh water, might not serve as a commodity basis for a universal currency. Otherwise I don't think that the system can be fixed given the unfortunate priorities in our value systems.

If shit gets bad enough those values could change dramatically whether we want them to or not.

Ummmmm

I am just going to assume that the rest of the board already took care of answering this.

Yeah. ITT I discovered how a simple seeming idea can get millions dead. Going to switch over to attempting to ask intelligent questions should any occur to me rather than blather about what I think.

I find that a useful strategy in most situations, myself.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

As for the economy, meh, I think that shit is toast and we'll need a new one.

It doesn't work that way.  No.  You cannot just hand out Newbux and make everything okay.  You can't even get rid of the federal reserve (if you're the kind of person that wants to). You can't go back to silver and you can't go back to gold (there isn't enough of either), and if you just replace one fiat currency with another, the problems all remain PLUS less people have confidence in it.

We're going to have to figure out how to fix THIS one.

I wonder if a low-value, universal commodity, like fresh water, might not serve as a commodity basis for a universal currency. Otherwise I don't think that the system can be fixed given the unfortunate priorities in our value systems.

If shit gets bad enough those values could change dramatically whether we want them to or not.

Ummmmm

I am just going to assume that the rest of the board already took care of answering this.

Yeah. ITT I discovered how a simple seeming idea can get millions dead. Going to switch over to attempting to ask intelligent questions should any occur to me rather than blather about what I think.

The fun part about futurism, with both trained folks and us hoi polloi, is that it mostly seems to be "throw shit against the wall.  A bunch of it is going to fly back into your face, ignore that and study the stuff that sticks."  which is to say, brainstorm, shoot down the dumb shit (and this is something we all produce, even if we occasionally forget that), and focus on the stuff that might work.  Rinse, repeat.

[P3nT4gR4m]

The fun part about futurism, with both trained folks and us hoi polloi, is that it mostly seems to be "throw shit against the wall.  A bunch of it is going to fly back into your face, ignore that and study the stuff that sticks."  which is to say, brainstorm, shoot down the dumb shit (and this is something we all produce, even if we occasionally forget that), and focus on the stuff that might work.  Rinse, repeat.

Futurism is dumb. It's an -ism- ie. dumb by default. Soon as you have an ism, you have people who believe it. Belief = retard. I don't believe in the future so I'm not an futurist. I do focus in that direction, tho. Try to get a handle on whats coming. See opportunities for profit and lulz. I saw computers back in the 80's, jumped on that bandwagon early and carved a cozy career for myself. I saw the internet in the early 90's and got my feet under the table. Now I'm looking at AI and AR and getting ready to upgrade my intellect and offload more of the donkeywork to machines. I've normally got a good 10 years head start on the general population and that means I get to play a modern day merlin. 21st century wizard powers. Makes for a fucking easy life.

And, yeah, any prediction anyone makes can be wrong. Some shit doesn't pan out and other shit hits speedbumps. Occasionally something turns out to be easier than it looks and we end up ahead of schedule and playing catchup. One truth seems to hold - the only constant is change. Primates, generally like things to stay the same, even when the status quo is abysmal. Sucks to be them. For some reason, I'm wired differently. I don't care what the fuck happens, as long as shit changes. Better, preferably but worse will do in a pinch. Just don't bore me, future the past already has that covered.

[Pergamos]

I wonder if a low-value, universal commodity, like fresh water, might not serve as a commodity basis for a universal currency.

Joe, I'm gonna step back for just a second and let you try to see the obvious flaw with that.

I'll give it a shot, and can guess at particular things, but what's obvious to you I can't guess. I've never tried to think of it in real terms before though, so here we go.

It's of almost no real value and any real commodity exchange would require quite a bit more energy than the water could ever represent. A traincar full of gold's value is such that actual relative cost of transportation would be negligible, if high risk.

Now that I think about it the idea of a low-val commodity currency is just flaxscrip in a different wrapper. Kinda funny idea, totally unworkable in the current system.

The water thing might work if it was profoundly high-value and strongly guaranteed somehow, but that would be either post-apocalyptic or perhaps interstellar scifi and not at all real world.

All I got for the moment. Anywhere near the mark?

Rich people hoard up the medium of exchange.  while that's already happening (see Nestle, collection of shitbags), I don't really think encouraging rich bastards to hoard up the potable water is a really good idea.

Also, the bottom rung dies of thirst or cholera, more or less guaranteed.

I think we need a currency based on Jenkem.  Watch the rich fuckers hoard literal shit.

[CBXTN]

I think we need a currency based on Jenkem.  Watch the rich fuckers hoard literal shit.

This is a really great idea~! I enjoy imagining blurring the lines between banks and the sanitation department. But how would such a currency avoid inflation?

[Pergamos]

I think we need a currency based on Jenkem.  Watch the rich fuckers hoard literal shit.

This is a really great idea~! I enjoy imagining blurring the lines between banks and the sanitation department. But how would such a currency avoid inflation?

Production would be limited by poop output, so the supply could only inflate if the population did, which it would need to do with an expanding population.  This is assuming jenkem degrades about as fast as it can be produced.  I might be wrong about that.

[CBXTN]

You are right, the rate of inflation will always be proportionate to the population, but wouldn't the value of a product or resource stay the same? I think the ability to make one's own Jenkem might contain too many economic variables (like counterfeit bills).

In order for human shit to be a viable currency, we would need to figure out a system in which people do not own the shit they expunge - It needs to be redistributed according the values of products and services people sell.