Autism debate split from 2016 Presidential debate thread

[xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)]

Look at the autism rate of 2016 vs 1986.

The only difference between then and now is that doctors got so e better diagnostic tools and at some point the news media decided to make it their Scary Disease of the Week(TM). My god, that must have been a slow week. They used to do actually frightenig syndromes like SARS and AIDS. Swine Flu was so sucuccesful they did it twice. And yet somehow autism is the one people have latched on to.

Except if it was misdiagnosis we would see a proportional downtick in other diagnoses which we have not. We havent seen any downtick. There are also physical symptoms such as different facial structure,
https://spectrumnews.org/news/clinical-research-facial-features-can-help-diagnose-autism/
and differences in gut fauna:
http://www.microbiologyresearch.org/docserver/fulltext/jmm/54/10/JMM5410.987.pdf?expires=1477592759&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=5D209DD190B8718803DCE1C0BD27F374

I'm not misanthropic enough yet to think we should abandon democracy entirely.
I mean, we have about the same chance of convincing the federal government to create stronger EPA standards and hold corporations accountable as we do of... doing the same thing but also stripping away our constitution and social freedoms?

Its funny because thats exactly what Ive been advocating. I want to democratically elect and ecofascist government.

But I just argued the points of EcoFascism right there.

At risk of being accused of moving the goalposts, I guess I meant "You stated your points as though they were the holy words of Goddess Herself being handed down to you only after being asked."

I mean you sound like a self-righteous shithead, basically, and you only stated your points when someone else asked about them before quickly veering away from them to talk about how much better your group of fuckwads is than the "other" outside your group.

So, someone asked about my beliefs, I answered them, and then I answered the next question. If you have a question about my beliefs ask.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The links between autism and altered gut biota are neither causative nor consistent.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/01/06/gut-disorders-and-autism-a-new-consensus/
http://www.skepticnorth.com/2013/07/new-study-on-gut-bacteria-in-autism-unrelated-to-wakefield-study/

The statistical differences in facial shape of autistic children cannot be used as a diagnostic tool, regardless of what pop media reporters might tell you.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111020105914.htm

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I like the open borders part

And, why given the horrible effects of NAFTA already do you think this is a good idea for anyone but 1% vampires?

That's why I specified "the open borders part" of the comment about "open borders and free trade"

Ok, why should we have completely open borders?

Why do you take things completely out of context?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ron Paul, I hate to tell you this, but your critical thinking skills are terrible and I am starting to be concerned that you may actually be stupid.

[xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)]

I like the open borders part

And, why given the horrible effects of NAFTA already do you think this is a good idea for anyone but 1% vampires?

That's why I specified "the open borders part" of the comment about "open borders and free trade"

Ok, why should we have completely open borders?

Why do you take things completely out of context?

Context:
"My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders,"
"I like the part about open borders"
"Why should we have open borders?"

???????????????????

The links between autism and altered gut biota are neither causative nor consistent.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/01/06/gut-disorders-and-autism-a-new-consensus/
http://www.skepticnorth.com/2013/07/new-study-on-gut-bacteria-in-autism-unrelated-to-wakefield-study/

Yes that is a very good takedown on some crank diet cure for autism and a research paper that states

While it is understandable that the public is interested in the ongoing story of why ASD patients have so many problems with their gut and diet, we cannot leap beyond the conclusions from one study and overgeneralise.  This study, like any good science, leaves us with more questions than answers. Is there a connection between neurological symptoms and Prevotella?  Is the decreased incidence of Prevotella predictive of ASD? Is the severity of GI symptoms really connected to the severity of ASD?  Does the ASD cause the change in the microbiome, or does the microbiome cause ASD, or are both conditions interconnected in multiple ways?  Is there a genetic link between the ASD child and the microbiome and how is the microbiome of the child related to his or her immediate family?

Which only reinforces my point that its very clear that Autism is a real, new disease with a biological root. Which you would know if you had read the context of the discussion. The comorbidity of autism and gut problems has been pretty well established, which wouldnt be the case if it was just a fad psych diagnosis like ADHD.

The statistical differences in facial shape of autistic children cannot be used as a diagnostic tool, regardless of what pop media reporters might tell you.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111020105914.htm

Which isnt the point I was making, but thank you for linking to a better source that also proves the point I was making.

[xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)]

Ron Paul, I hate to tell you this, but your critical thinking skills are terrible and I am starting to be concerned that you may actually be stupid.

In 2010 the autism rate was 1 in every 150 children. Do you believe that the birthrate for autism has always been this high? That we have had this many people a with a very distinct disease with physical symptoms that just went unnoticed for years? Why has its subsequent recognition and diagnosis not resulted in a drop in whatever other diagnosis it was being mistaken for? Do you believe this is just a fad diagnosis, and if you do how do you explain the comorbid physical symptoms?

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

Genetic traits don't just suddenly pop up spread across a wide swath of the population (unless there's some guy out there fucking an awful lot of chicks without protection). That's not how genetics works in real life, that's only how it works in The X-Men. (Unless you believe it's the result of vaccines or something, in which case you might want to switch to getting your science from The X-Men because that would probably be a step up)

Why has its subsequent recognition and diagnosis not resulted in a drop in whatever other diagnosis it was being mistaken for?

Why would it be mistaken for something? Most of these kids wouldn't have been brought to the doctor at all before the news media made it their scary disease of the week. Which isn't to say that it's not a real condition, but it's a first world problem white people condition like restless leg syndrome, lactose intolerance, sleep apnea, fear of airplanes, or obsessive-compulsive disorder.

[xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)]

Genetic traits don't just suddenly pop up spread across a wide swath of the population (unless there's some guy out there fucking an awful lot of chicks without protection). That's not how genetics works in real life, that's only how it works in The X-Men. (Unless you believe it's the result of vaccines or something, in which case you might want to switch to getting your science from The X-Men because that would probably be a step up)

My belief is or something.

(autism is) a first world problem white people condition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsJ154jWRsU
Ok.

[The Wizard Joseph]

Ron Paul, I hate to tell you this, but your critical thinking skills are terrible and I am starting to be concerned that you may actually be stupid.

No... he disqualified himself from stupidity as an excuse pages ago. I believe he may in fact be suffering from some form of sophic memeostasis disorder but I can't be certain without a closer look under the hood. His mask of reason has slipped and chipped a few times, but it's overall well constructed enough to keep slipping back into. He's extremely comfortable doing so until someone stops "taking him seriously" here or points out his various behavioral inconsistencies.

He is certainly aware enough to know I'm sending you this analysis, but I fear that his abusers have in fact done a pretty good "Bob"job on his reasoning faculty and probably jammed his pineal gland all to shit with "a bit of the old in-out in-out" to boot, limiting his ch1 chakra's ability to influence the bruised and vastly, suqickily overloaded ch2 "third eye" chakra. It's why he needs a strong-woman power object or non threatening "soft-cis" placation proxy to fixate on or divert blame with respectively. In a very real way he's still getting fucked even as he reads this by whoever did this. I suspect the NRX, but he hasn't yet displayed obvious elfiplasia YET so I can't be sure until he finally stops pretending to be here to "innocwntly swit-post" or whatever.

Poor bastard might never regain full autonomous ego ever again.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

Can we split the autism "debate" from the politics thread?

[The Wizard Joseph]

Can we split the autism "debate" from the politics thread?

Probably a good idea at this point.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ron Paul, autism may be on the rise. There are several hypotheses about why that might be happening, including the environmental-disruptor hypothesis and the fraternization hypothesis. However, it is not new. The name is new, but the disorder is documented back to the dawn of psychology. It did not "go unnoticed for years", that's just made up.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/autism-rates-are-it-really-rise

Please stop getting your information from "autism speaks", which is a website largely considered actual garbage in Autism research circles as well as among the Autistic. Also consider avoiding information from conspiracy theory websites. Autism is a very large and active field of research, and while I am not an autism researcher, as a developmental neuroendcrinologist I do know and work with autism researchers, including Dr. Fair, who is eminent in the field. I can point you toward legitimate articles and resources that are not merely scaremongering for fundraising purposes.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Why am I wasting my time trying to reason with this paranoid toolkit?

[xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)]

Ron Paul, autism may be on the rise. There are several hypotheses about why that might be happening, including the environmental-disruptor hypothesis and the fraternization hypothesis. However, it is not new. The name is new, but the disorder is documented back to the dawn of psychology. It did not "go unnoticed for years", that's just made up.

Youll notice a question mark after "went unnoticed for years."

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/autism-rates-are-it-really-rise

Please stop getting your information from "autism speaks", which is a website largely considered actual garbage in Autism research circles as well as among the Autistic. Also consider avoiding information from conspiracy theory websites. Autism is a very large and active field of research, and while I am not an autism researcher, as a developmental neuroendcrinologist I do know and work with autism researchers, including Dr. Fair, who is eminent in the field. I can point you toward legitimate articles and resources that are not merely scaremongering for fundraising purposes.

The possibility that autism numbers have jumped as children's' diagnoses are changed has been discussed, says Annette Estes, director of the University of Washington's Autism Center in Seattle. The Penn State study's use of the vast special education database makes a convincing case that is happening, she says. But it doesn't explain all of the increase. "People who are in the field are generally in consensus that the majority of the increase is due to progress in our ability to diagnose and identify people with autism in a broader spectrum than used to be possible," Estes says. "But then there is this portion of an increase that is not accounted for in a lot of statistical studies that are done."

So in other words, Autism is on the rise. If you look at the actual study here:
http://science.psu.edu/news-and-events/2015-news/Girirajan7-2015
It only talks about changing diagnosis categories. If you look at the chart in this study it also only addresses 2000 to 2010. If you look at any of the longer range charts there is a very sharp spike here, but there is also a previous upward trend. One that even this stud acknowledges. There was a danish study:
http://www.vitamindwiki.com/dl1885&display&max=500

Which found that only 60% of the rise in autism diagnoses could be explained this way. That leaves a very real upward trend.

Why am I wasting my time trying to reason with this paranoid toolkit?

By agreeing with me? So far your main criticism has been with the sources I pasted, thank you again for giving me better sources for the point I was already making.

[xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)]

Can we split the autism "debate" from the politics thread?

Probably a good idea at this point.

Especially since it consists mostly of a guy who trying to tell me Autism isnt real and Nigel linking me to research papers that prove my point while insulting me.