How Trump Happened Part 1 of Whatever

[Junkenstein]

I'm sorry, is there a polite way to say, "you're being a bigot"?  (changed racist to bigot to avoid pedantic counterarguments)

And also, it seems to me that most civil and human rights causes have consistently said to call people out on their bigotry? 

Silence = Death, and all that (lord, I'm old enough to remember that one).

"you are acting bigoted" is better than "you are a bigot" in my opinion, it may not actually be more polite but it is more accurate in that it labels the action and not the person.  Everyone does bigoted things sometimes, we need to realize when we do and work to do less of them but labelling someone who does a bigoted thing as a bigot makes redemption much more difficult.

Here's the thing, at what point does it become more accurate to then describe said person as a bigot? When someone repeatedly makes shitty comments, it's pointless to keep pointing out the idiocy as they haven't learnt to pack it in previously. In the obvious case of trump, no-one can reasonably claim they've not heard multiple slurs against X and he still got about 50% of the vote. By any metric, trump is an irredeemable racist at the least and this has been well documented for decades. After that long, it's fair to say you're looking at a bigot and not someone who accidentally keeps saying really shitty things and needs a gentle reminder.

Redemption is largely irrelevant as I doubt any are seeking it and no-one is in a position to grant it anyway. Black jesus doesn't appear and Hi-five you for not being a shitbag.


On a slightly different note, Nigel/LMNO/Anyone who cares - I'm seeing numbers like 42% of women went for trump. While elections don't really get more that 60/40 anyway, I expected this to be higher. Worth a look? I would have thought 12 accusations and the various comments should have done more damage.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm sorry, is there a polite way to say, "you're being a bigot"?  (changed racist to bigot to avoid pedantic counterarguments)

And also, it seems to me that most civil and human rights causes have consistently said to call people out on their bigotry? 

Silence = Death, and all that (lord, I'm old enough to remember that one).

"you are acting bigoted" is better than "you are a bigot" in my opinion, it may not actually be more polite but it is more accurate in that it labels the action and not the person.  Everyone does bigoted things sometimes, we need to realize when we do and work to do less of them but labelling someone who does a bigoted thing as a bigot makes redemption much more difficult.

Here's the thing, at what point does it become more accurate to then describe said person as a bigot? When someone repeatedly makes shitty comments, it's pointless to keep pointing out the idiocy as they haven't learnt to pack it in previously. In the obvious case of trump, no-one can reasonably claim they've not heard multiple slurs against X and he still got about 50% of the vote. By any metric, trump is an irredeemable racist at the least and this has been well documented for decades. After that long, it's fair to say you're looking at a bigot and not someone who accidentally keeps saying really shitty things and needs a gentle reminder.

Redemption is largely irrelevant as I doubt any are seeking it and no-one is in a position to grant it anyway. Black jesus doesn't appear and Hi-five you for not being a shitbag.


On a slightly different note, Nigel/LMNO/Anyone who cares - I'm seeing numbers like 42% of women went for trump. While elections don't really get more that 60/40 anyway, I expected this to be higher. Worth a look? I would have thought 12 accusations and the various comments should have done more damage.

53% if I recall, if you just look at white women. It drops significantly when you include black and hispanic women.

[xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)]

Does Nigel have me blocked? If she does I would like a split preferably to the existing election thread. I dont want people who block me posting off topic in my threads.

Cain Faust? Rodger is refusing.

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

Thing is, we ARE seeing a backlash, but I think a lot of people are mistaken about why. We are seeing a backlash because we reached a stage where underrepresented groups finally felt like it was safe to ask to be treated like full human beings. The backlash is happening in response to that, not because people are "alienated from our cause". They were never with our cause in the first place, and they just want us to shut up about it because we make them feel uncomfortable and threaten their complacency.

The problem is that you're (or at least the subset of you who have latched onto concepts like microaggressions and such) just the liberal version of the right's moralizing decency-and-family-values assclowns. A bunch of busybodies who have nothing better to do than get offended by innocuous behavior, seeing "oppression" everywhere the way the decency wingnuts imagine degeneracy and satan everywhere

[LMNO]

Any time you feel like shutting the fuck up, please feel free.

[The Wizard Joseph]

Does Nigel have me blocked? If she does I would like a split preferably to the existing election thread. I dont want people who block me posting off topic in my threads.

Cain Faust? Rodger is refusing.

[Prelate Diogenes Shandor]

Or at least that's the impression that people have, regardless of however many non-insane people are also there, because those people are effectively invisible (and given that this is about changing public opinion and societal norms, also effectively not there)

[Junkenstein]

Any time you feel like shutting the fuck up, please feel free.

[xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)]

Any time you feel like shutting the fuck up, please feel free.

2018 cant come fast enough.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I thought this essay was really insightful, and accurately explains why I don't feel any need to let these people into my living room.

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

In deep red, white America, the white Christian God is king, figuratively and literally.  Religious fundamentalism is what has shaped most of their belief systems.  Systems built on a fundamentalist framework are not conducive for introspection, questioning, learning, change.  When you have a belief system that is built on fundamentalism, it isn't open to outside criticism, especially by anyone not a member of your tribe and in a position of power.  The problem isn't "coastal elites don't understand rural Americans."  The problem is rural America doesn't understand itself and will NEVER listen to anyone outside their bubble.  It doesn't matter how "understanding" you are, how well you listen, what language you use...if you are viewed as an outsider, your views are automatically discounted.  I've had hundreds of discussions with rural white Americans and whenever I present them any information that contradicts their entrenched beliefs, no matter how sound, how unquestionable, how obvious, they WILL NOT even entertain the possibility it might be true.  Their refusal is a result of the nature of their fundamentalist belief system and the fact I'm the enemy because I'm an educated liberal.  At some point during the discussion, "That's your education talking," will be said, derogatorily, as a general dismissal of everything I said.  They truly believe this is a legitimate response because to them education is not to be trusted.

[The Wizard Joseph]

 

Any time you feel like shutting the fuck up, please feel free.

2018 cant come fast enough.

[xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)]

I thought this essay was really insightful, and accurately explains why I don't feel any need to let these people into my living room.

http://forsetti.tumblr.com/post/153181757500/on-rural-america-understanding-isnt-the-problem

In deep red, white America, the white Christian God is king, figuratively and literally.  Religious fundamentalism is what has shaped most of their belief systems.  Systems built on a fundamentalist framework are not conducive for introspection, questioning, learning, change.  When you have a belief system that is built on fundamentalism, it isn't open to outside criticism, especially by anyone not a member of your tribe and in a position of power.  The problem isn't "coastal elites don't understand rural Americans."  The problem is rural America doesn't understand itself and will NEVER listen to anyone outside their bubble.  It doesn't matter how "understanding" you are, how well you listen, what language you use...if you are viewed as an outsider, your views are automatically discounted.  I've had hundreds of discussions with rural white Americans and whenever I present them any information that contradicts their entrenched beliefs, no matter how sound, how unquestionable, how obvious, they WILL NOT even entertain the possibility it might be true.  Their refusal is a result of the nature of their fundamentalist belief system and the fact I'm the enemy because I'm an educated liberal.  At some point during the discussion, "That's your education talking," will be said, derogatorily, as a general dismissal of everything I said.  They truly believe this is a legitimate response because to them education is not to be trusted.

You were doing a really good actually blocking me instead of just loudly declaring you werent listening to me in every thread. Then you mess it up by passive aggressively off topic posting in my threads. YOU REALLY DONT CARE WHAT I THINK ALRIGHT.

[xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)]

Any time you feel like shutting the fuck up, please feel free.

2018 cant come fast enough.

>butthurt
>winning

Also this should just be pointed out:

They truly believe this is a legitimate response because to them education is not to be trusted.

The education system is currently selling an entire generation into debt slavery and you think it SHOULD be trusted? Do you honestly think people who make you take out massive loans to pay for a piece of paper that might or might get an actual education with it, in the vain hopes that this piece of paper will let you get a good enough job to eventually pay it off, actually care about informing you about how the world works? Like, do you think career debt slavers taught you all privilege and social justice crap, because theyre good people who want to see you cast off the shackles of your oppression?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

You know what the problem is with your message, RP?  Seriously?  No bullshit?

[xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)]

You know what the problem is with your message, RP?  Seriously?  No bullshit?

Go right ahead.