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Turning Purple

Started by LMNO, November 10, 2016, 08:36:04 PM

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Junkenstein

That's not been claimed. What can be inferred is Romney didn't cater to them resulting in apathy.

Logic is useful.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)

It isnt being claimed. It is a historic fact:





^This is the 2008 map btw, not the Romney map. So again, how did all these Obama states get taken over by literal Nazis?

Junkenstein

Hmm, let's see:

QuoteI know I keep playing this fiddle, but THIS WASN'T ACCIDENTAL. This was orchestrated. Since the 2004 election, Republicans have been working furiously at local levels to close polls in poor and black areas, and to institute voter ID laws and other measures, like registration purges, to block poor and black voters, who trend strongly Democrat, from voting.

Oh, yeah.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)

Quote from: Junkenstein on December 01, 2016, 11:15:03 PM
Hmm, let's see:

QuoteI know I keep playing this fiddle, but THIS WASN'T ACCIDENTAL. This was orchestrated. Since the 2004 election, Republicans have been working furiously at local levels to close polls in poor and black areas, and to institute voter ID laws and other measures, like registration purges, to block poor and black voters, who trend strongly Democrat, from voting.

Oh, yeah.

So again. Do you honestly think the rust belt would have voted for Clinton if it wasnt for "voter suppression"?

Junkenstein

I point you to the numbers around the popular vote.

This isn't brain surgery. First past the post systems and derivatives thereof, such as the electoral college are great for giving shitty unrepresentative results.

QuoteMind you, nonetheless, more than half of the people who did vote -- and it was not a small turnout by historic figures, at all, DESPITE voter suppression -- voted for Hillary Clinton DESPITE THE FACT THAT MANY OF THEM DIDN'T PARTICULARLY LIKE HER. Despite the fact that she's a woman. That's some pretty fucking impressive unity.


Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)

Quote from: Junkenstein on December 01, 2016, 11:48:24 PM
I point you to the numbers around the popular vote.

This isn't brain surgery. First past the post systems and derivatives thereof, such as the electoral college are great for giving shitty unrepresentative results.

QuoteMind you, nonetheless, more than half of the people who did vote -- and it was not a small turnout by historic figures, at all, DESPITE voter suppression -- voted for Hillary Clinton DESPITE THE FACT THAT MANY OF THEM DIDN'T PARTICULARLY LIKE HER. Despite the fact that she's a woman. That's some pretty fucking impressive unity.

You see I already made a post before :

Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on November 22, 2016, 09:51:10 PM
Quote from: Faust on November 22, 2016, 09:37:40 PM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on November 22, 2016, 08:54:18 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 22, 2016, 08:53:10 PM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on November 22, 2016, 08:39:04 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 22, 2016, 06:32:54 PM
Requesting a thread split -- this thread is about Trump hilarity.

This is the thread where Rodger has been splitting all my posts that get split anyways

And Im surprised that someone with so many very impressive degrees doesnt understand the electoral college. Trump has 306, Clinton has 232. This is a landslide.

:lulz:

Do you even know where you are? You seem lost.

Explain to me how 306 electoral votes againts 232 isnt a landslide.
The electoral vote was a landslide, the popular vote was pretty much even. That's not a win, that sounds like a cry for reform.
Two things:

1) Would this reform extend to the senate as well? Because its the same principle and few people ever bitch about it.

2) This would have been no guarantee against a Trump victory this year and if it ever happens would not guarantee a lack of future victories. As he himself explained, he built his campaign around scoring electoral votes because thats what it takes to win. If the election was based on the popular vote he would have altered his strategy for that.

Also, think about this for a moment. California and New York being the big contendors seems nice, but the other two heavy weights would be Texas and Florida. I know you think Trump is bad, but do you really really want every Republican candidate from this point on basing his platform on winning the Texan vote out of necessity?

   Which brings us to the point of the EC. America isnt a homogeneous nation, it has a lot of different interests and cultures. Without the EC (and the Senate) America would be run by Texas, Florida, New York and California with the rest of us all just along for the ride. Do you honestly want this? Just because Clinton won in some alternate reality what if fanfiction where Article II vanished on November 7th?


Btw Keep it up guys! The reason you lost is totally because you did so well! Such turnout! Much unity! Just keep reminding yourselves that you did nothing wrong, keep doing the same nothing wrong and the election is in the bag!

Pergamos

Quote from: Cramulus on November 30, 2016, 07:50:59 PM

I don't think that there's a single approach that will win working-class people back left. I think we'll need a mix of education, pointing out Trump's failures, and a healthy feel-good dose of Shaming.


Sure there is, ditch wall street and support the working class.  Stop supporting trade agreements that export jobs, smash the finance industry when it tries to take advantage of students and middle class home owners, tax the shit out of the wealthy and stop taxing everyone else.

Cainad (dec.)

Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on December 01, 2016, 10:30:19 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 30, 2016, 11:31:34 PM
Quote from: whenhellfreezes on November 29, 2016, 01:35:38 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 28, 2016, 10:30:04 AM
Quote from: whenhellfreezes on November 28, 2016, 03:22:05 AM
Lots of people don't vote because they don't feel like its very effective, and they are right to feel that.

And that's how they get the government they deserve.   :lulz:

Now I feel a bit foolish. Of course taking the ~20 minutes to vote is worth it. It is more effective than other things you could do in that time. I should have just said that they don't feel like its effective but not said they were right to feel so. I guess I am prone to defeatism.

There were areas where it was five to seven hours. Basically, places where people had to miss a full day of work, if they even had the option, in order to vote.

I know I keep playing this fiddle, but THIS WASN'T ACCIDENTAL. This was orchestrated. Since the 2004 election, Republicans have been working furiously at local levels to close polls in poor and black areas, and to institute voter ID laws and other measures, like registration purges, to block poor and black voters, who trend strongly Democrat, from voting.

So without these laws rural/rust belt America would have voted Democrat? Do you still not understand what the electoral college is? Keep in mind, rural/rust belt America did vote Democrat for Obama twice. Very interested in your theory of how Obama won the raging white supremacist vote.

That's a very interesting way of completely not responding to what Nigel actually said.

xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed)

Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on December 02, 2016, 12:33:08 PM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on December 01, 2016, 10:30:19 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 30, 2016, 11:31:34 PM
Quote from: whenhellfreezes on November 29, 2016, 01:35:38 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 28, 2016, 10:30:04 AM
Quote from: whenhellfreezes on November 28, 2016, 03:22:05 AM
Lots of people don't vote because they don't feel like its very effective, and they are right to feel that.

And that's how they get the government they deserve.   :lulz:

Now I feel a bit foolish. Of course taking the ~20 minutes to vote is worth it. It is more effective than other things you could do in that time. I should have just said that they don't feel like its effective but not said they were right to feel so. I guess I am prone to defeatism.

There were areas where it was five to seven hours. Basically, places where people had to miss a full day of work, if they even had the option, in order to vote.

I know I keep playing this fiddle, but THIS WASN'T ACCIDENTAL. This was orchestrated. Since the 2004 election, Republicans have been working furiously at local levels to close polls in poor and black areas, and to institute voter ID laws and other measures, like registration purges, to block poor and black voters, who trend strongly Democrat, from voting.

So without these laws rural/rust belt America would have voted Democrat? Do you still not understand what the electoral college is? Keep in mind, rural/rust belt America did vote Democrat for Obama twice. Very interested in your theory of how Obama won the raging white supremacist vote.

That's a very interesting way of completely not responding to what Nigel actually said.

She said that voter suppression against black voters played a major role in this election, after explaining why liberals did absolutely nothing wrong while losing control of the presidency, the legislature and the supreme court. I asked her if without voter suppression does she honestly think rural and rust belt America, you know the electoral votes that won this for Trump, would have been blue. But I guess that could be rephrased to, how would the electoral map have been different at all?

Note, "voter suppression" is just a variation of her previous point, that liberals made no mistakes and therefore dont have to introspect, change or learn at all from this crushing defeat.


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on December 02, 2016, 12:33:08 PM
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on December 01, 2016, 10:30:19 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 30, 2016, 11:31:34 PM
Quote from: whenhellfreezes on November 29, 2016, 01:35:38 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 28, 2016, 10:30:04 AM
Quote from: whenhellfreezes on November 28, 2016, 03:22:05 AM
Lots of people don't vote because they don't feel like its very effective, and they are right to feel that.

And that's how they get the government they deserve.   :lulz:

Now I feel a bit foolish. Of course taking the ~20 minutes to vote is worth it. It is more effective than other things you could do in that time. I should have just said that they don't feel like its effective but not said they were right to feel so. I guess I am prone to defeatism.

There were areas where it was five to seven hours. Basically, places where people had to miss a full day of work, if they even had the option, in order to vote.

I know I keep playing this fiddle, but THIS WASN'T ACCIDENTAL. This was orchestrated. Since the 2004 election, Republicans have been working furiously at local levels to close polls in poor and black areas, and to institute voter ID laws and other measures, like registration purges, to block poor and black voters, who trend strongly Democrat, from voting.

So without these laws rural/rust belt America would have voted Democrat? Do you still not understand what the electoral college is? Keep in mind, rural/rust belt America did vote Democrat for Obama twice. Very interested in your theory of how Obama won the raging white supremacist vote.

That's a very interesting way of completely not responding to what Nigel actually said.

Eh, he's locked into a reality tunnel. Not worth the time to converse with, because he has already decided what he wants to believe, and information that counters his pre-formed beliefs can't get in.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: maphdet on November 14, 2016, 01:55:42 AM
Also economic division...but that's not what im here to say now...

You don't think the poor are a marginalized and underrepresented group?
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

The people who voted for Donald Trump are the quintessence of Middle America: white middle-class people who believe in a particular midcentury ideal of the American Dream, one in which healthy happy nuclear families with a stay-at-home-mom go to church every Sunday. Black people, immigrants, gays, and single parents are not part of this vision; that's why they could so easily disregard ther well-being with their vote. They are racist, but it's the kind of passive racism that allows people to do grievous harm against black communities with their votes while claiming (and earnestly believing) that they are not racist. Abortion isn't an issue for them because good women get married and stay married while good men work hard to support their families. They cant have immigrants TAKING those jobs, that wouldn't be right, and gay people... well, that's alright as long as they keep it behind closed doors, and as long as it's not MY son or daughter because I didn't raise them like that.

It's not a mystery. They are the rosy-cheeked, suburban, middle-class, Christian, white, conservative American Dream. That's what they're fighting for. The ones that don't have it, want it, and they earnestly think that Donald Trump will lead them back into the dream of trickle-down economics by lifting burdens from the wealth creators like Ronald Reagan reborn from the ashes of the 80's.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2016/11/09/donald-trumps-presidenti-victory-demographics/#16ec92b179a8
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/
http://billmoyers.com/story/so-who-are-donald-trumps-voters/
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


The Wizard Joseph

Seems Nigel understands your "position" quite well RP.

MY only question is how do you stay in that position like you do?
Having your head stuck so far up your ass to celebrate your inner "Darkness" has to be hard on your spine.

Maybe you should take a break.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on December 02, 2016, 06:21:54 PM
Seems Nigel understands your "position" quite well RP.

MY only question is how do you stay in that position like you do?
Having your head stuck so far up your ass to celebrate your inner "Darkness" has to be hard on your spine.

Maybe you should take a break.

Not a single word of what I wrote above is new or revelatory. It's all been posted, along with most if not all of those links, by myself, Cain, or some other spag at some point. He just doesn't want to read it or pay attention to anything that might unsettle his weird little bubble of armchair sociology.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."