Misinfo Wars

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

A new question:

Would effective neutralization of prolifically disinformative news sources help curb the kinds of misinformation commonly propagated and reinforced by common discourse? In other words, would it make people less ignorant - or more able to be dissuaded from ignorance - on social media and in public?

Nope.

Or, in the absence of controlled disinformation, would people just saturate the world with bullshit by regularly generating their own?

What, exactly, do you think is currently happening?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Have you, by any chance, read The Human Use of Human Beings by Norbert Wiener?

Interesting question. I'm sure there's a reason for it.

If you're interested in the idea of signals or messages as organic, fluid, or essentially "living" things which are subject to the forces of entropy, then cybernetics is an appropriate field of study to immerse one's self in. I was wondering if you'd already done so.

The book reads a bit like stereo instructions but taps into a few really key ideas about the way that information works.

I can't imagine why Pent would be interested in or know anything about cybernetics or information systems. Would you Pent?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

how the FUCK can we discuss anything anymore, if we can't even figure out what the facts of reality are? The echo-chamber effect is causing our understanding of reality to bifurcate more and more. Whether or not it's true or false, we can't talk if we can't even share premises.

Learn how to fact-check. Take a class in it, if possible. Don't just look at a number of articles; vet the sources. Often you can find several articles that all seem to agree, only to find they are all just "reporting" another article. Try to trace to the initial source, and learn to evaluate credibility of original sources. Multiple concurring original sources which all came to their conclusion through original research and analysis and do not appear to be unduly influenced by monetary or idealogical dependence on any large funding body are your best bets for factual accuracy. 

[Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard]

Or, in the absence of controlled disinformation, would people just saturate the world with bullshit by regularly generating their own?

What, exactly, do you think is currently happening?

A mixture of both controlled disinformation as well as that which is generated naturally people's inclination towards self-affirming nonsense. Both are reinforced in feedback loops through social networking and other kinds of Internet-based echo-chambers.

I can't imagine why Pent would be interested in or know anything about cybernetics or information systems. Would you Pent?

Well, I guess I picked up on that? Not sure why my intuition was met with reservation, but whatever.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Or, in the absence of controlled disinformation, would people just saturate the world with bullshit by regularly generating their own?

What, exactly, do you think is currently happening?

A mixture of both controlled disinformation as well as that which is generated naturally people's inclination towards self-affirming nonsense. Both are reinforced in feedback loops through social networking and other kinds of Internet-based echo-chambers.

I can't imagine why Pent would be interested in or know anything about cybernetics or information systems. Would you Pent?

Well, I guess I picked up on that? Not sure why my intuition was met with reservation, but whatever.

Yeah, it's more a matter of you not having bothered to read the board at all or try to figure out who knows more than you about what before saying shit that sounds incredibly stupid to anyone with actual expertise in the subject.

[Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard]

Yeah, it's more a matter of you not having bothered to read the board at all or try to figure out who knows more than you about what before saying shit that sounds incredibly stupid to anyone with actual expertise in the subject.

"...not having bothered to read the board" ... ?

I'm not going to read through eight years of posts in order to save myself the trouble of actual socializing.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Have you, by any chance, read The Human Use of Human Beings by Norbert Wiener?

Interesting question. I'm sure there's a reason for it.

If you're interested in the idea of signals or messages as organic, fluid, or essentially "living" things which are subject to the forces of entropy, then cybernetics is an appropriate field of study to immerse one's self in. I was wondering if you'd already done so.

The book reads a bit like stereo instructions but taps into a few really key ideas about the way that information works.

I can't imagine why Pent would be interested in or know anything about cybernetics or information systems. Would you Pent?

Nope, I'm just here looking for a charismatic guru

[Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard]

Have you, by any chance, read The Human Use of Human Beings by Norbert Wiener?

Interesting question. I'm sure there's a reason for it.

If you're interested in the idea of signals or messages as organic, fluid, or essentially "living" things which are subject to the forces of entropy, then cybernetics is an appropriate field of study to immerse one's self in. I was wondering if you'd already done so.

The book reads a bit like stereo instructions but taps into a few really key ideas about the way that information works.

I can't imagine why Pent would be interested in or know anything about cybernetics or information systems. Would you Pent?

Nope, I'm just here looking for a charismatic guru

If you're an expert on cybernetics, I hope you can appreciate the irony which is the total communications breakdown of this exchange. It's one thing for people to react with hostility in a political thread where I refer to hypothetical people as assholes, but to be laughed at and given shit for not already knowing whoever the hell you are is downright dirty pool.

Great. I'm the "new guy". I didn't read the half-organized and non-searchable ten-thousand previous posts in order to find the one where it's made clear that you in particular are the Ghost of Norbert Wiener himself. What's more, your blurb in the "Who's Who" thread (which I actually did read) doesn't mention anything having to do with any of this. And since you have no idea who I am, I must know fuck-all about the subject, right?

I don't mean to come down on you specifically, but these tag-team style shenanigans are wildly out of place in this thread.

In an alternate universe, we might have had an interesting conversation. But in this one, I'm obviously not worth an easy answer to a simple question.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I don't mean to come down on you specifically, but these tag-team style shenanigans are wildly out of place in this thread.

Sorry to disappoint but these tag-team style shenanigans are pretty much the whole board 

[LMNO]

I don't mean to come down on you specifically, but these tag-team style shenanigans are wildly out of place in this thread.

Sorry to disappoint but these tag-team style shenanigans are pretty much the whole board 

[LMNO]

Also,

You got it.

The end result seems to be the same, but I was trying to clarify that the net balance of lies::truth was the same.  It's the signal-boosting repetition that has thrown it out of wack.

I would posit that this definition takes far too narrow a view of how one defines the proportion of fact vs. disinformation. If 30 sources claim that alkaline water is good for you for every 1 source that claims it is woo, do you consider that a 1:1 ratio?

Good point.  I hadn't looked at it from the reverse view. 

Apropos of very little, it really seems like Colbert's "truthiness" routine has become entirely normalized by now.  In the campaign, there would be reporting that Trump claimed the rates of violent crime were skyrocketing.  This isn't true, and occasionally a news report would mention that in passing, but they were more focused on the Trump voter feeling like it's true, which the news somehow decided was a valid reason for voting Trump. 

"I voted for someone based on false information, but it felt good" doesn't seem like a good place to start a conversation, though.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah, it's more a matter of you not having bothered to read the board at all or try to figure out who knows more than you about what before saying shit that sounds incredibly stupid to anyone with actual expertise in the subject.

"...not having bothered to read the board" ... ?

I'm not going to read through eight years of posts in order to save myself the trouble of actual socializing.

Some people just, you know, lurk a little, skim the last few weeks, make some chitchat, shit like that. Just to get a feel for the place, kinda figure out who people are before condescending to them. You know. Socializing.

Using appropriate social behavior.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Hell, even I like to get current before I post, if I've been gone a while. Pick up on context, read the room, etc.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

In an alternate universe, we might have had an interesting conversation. But in this one, I'm obviously not worth an easy answer to a simple question.

Now you have it figured out.

[Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard]

Some people just, you know, lurk a little, skim the last few weeks, make some chitchat, shit like that. Just to get a feel for the place, kinda figure out who people are before condescending to them. You know. Socializing.

Which I did at various points for a period of several months. How can you have the expectation that I would ever have come across information about one specific person? How can you berate me for asking a question about whether or not he was interested in a specific field of academic study?

You can't. You didn't like what I had to say in the other thread, so you came into this one to be a bitch.

And just what the hell is condescending about asking someone if they were familiar with something? If anything, the response was condescending. "Interesting question. I'm sure there's a reason for it." Well, hello, Mr. Fancy Pants!

Using appropriate social behavior.

Something you threw out the window the moment you tried telling me that my head was "too far up my own ass" because you didn't agree with my point of view. You wouldn't know what appropriate social behavior was if it came up to you, told you that you look nice today, and asked if you'd read any good books lately.