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WHERE'S YOUR GODWIN, NOW?

Started by Salty, November 17, 2016, 06:43:01 PM

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Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard

Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:57:47 AM
First of all, you don't know shit about my clitoris

Let me just stop you there. I don't care.

Quote
Second,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-the-age-of-trump-grim-warnings-from-holocaust-survivors/2016/01/27/c65ea38c-c549-11e5-8965-0607e0e265ce_story.html?utm_term=.fb64fad6b633

Holocaust survivors are absolutely entitled to draw meaningful comparisons to Hitler, and are worth listening to. That being said, a Holocaust survivor making extremely reserved comments about being weary of demagogues doesn't give random crazies on the Internet license to claim that someone is literally a Nazi.

Discussing this woman's experiences and the merits of her testimony? No, that's not Godwin's Law, and thank you for providing the link. The stupid shit that Vivat and Roger are trolling? Totally Godwin's Law.
"I never thought of shaving my beard and freeing the slaves, but I thought of shaving the slaves and freeing my beard!"
~ Abrahaham Lincololn

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 06:11:14 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:57:47 AM
First of all, you don't know shit about my clitoris

Let me just stop you there. I don't care.

Oh, no need; that's been more than evident from the start. Along with every other clitoris on the planet.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Salty

Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 06:11:14 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:57:47 AM
First of all, you don't know shit about my clitoris

Let me just stop you there. I don't care.

Quote
Second,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-the-age-of-trump-grim-warnings-from-holocaust-survivors/2016/01/27/c65ea38c-c549-11e5-8965-0607e0e265ce_story.html?utm_term=.fb64fad6b633

Holocaust survivors are absolutely entitled to draw meaningful comparisons to Hitler, and are worth listening to. That being said, a Holocaust survivor making extremely reserved comments about being weary of demagogues doesn't give random crazies on the Internet license to claim that someone is a Nazi.

Discussing this woman's experiences and the merits of her testimony? No, that's not Godwin's Law, and thank you for providing the link. The stupid shit that Vivat and Roger are trolling? Totally Godwin's Law.

:lol:

Check out this trollbait I laid earlier.

Quote"Intentionalist historians of Nazi Germany traditionally emphasize the unique role of Hitler in legitimizing and directing Nazi rule from the very beginning of the movement (Jaeckel 1972; Bracher 1979).7 On this view, German fascism is seen as a 'monocratic' system of rule (Alleinherrschaft) which is not only dependent on the ideological vision of the leader but on his personal decision making. As structuralist historians argue, however, this interpretation downplays the multi-dimensional nature of decision making in the Third Reich and the deliberate cultivation of the 'Führer myth' as a legitimation device, which allowed Nazi rulers to attribute policy successes to the leader while blaming lesser functionaries for the chaotic reality of polycratic rule (Broszat 1981; Mason 1971; Mommsen 1991b). As Kershaw points out, this allowed the Nazi elite to project an image of the Führer as a leader without sin, a person who could transcend sectional interests and rise above everyday political squabbles."

Or this, thanks to Cain BTW:
Quote"Fascism was intended to increase the effectiveness of the state in the management of economic and social processes, but resulted instead in the erosion of an older distinction between state and civil society, a fragmentation of government into multiple competing agencies, and a decline of the old state bureaucracy as a site of unified, autonomous decision making. Although founded in principle on the concentrated authority of the state, fascism in Germany devolved decision-making authority to co-opted elites, creating a dynamic towards polycracy. By undermining routinized administration, fascism led to infighting, short-termism, organizational chaos, and policy radicalization, encouraging leaders to embark on adventurist policies and periodic campaigns to mobilize their support base. As Broszat argues, National Socialism created a tendency towards expedience which 'disrupted any rational overall organization of government and reinforced the particularist egocentricity of the respective departmental values and ideologies' (1981: 358). In this environment, law effectively lost its universal regulatory function, degenerating into a system of contradictory decrees articulating the interests of power-elites who attempted to manipulate the apparatus to defeat rivals or to win favour with the leader. To this extent, at least, the rivalry between fascist oligarchs confirms one of the primary theoretical arguments of competitive elitism, namely that political outcomes are – to a large extent – determined by the balance of power between elites for influence in the state."

No these tasty little examples of thought must have Godwin tingling in all his extremities.

You're not worth the effort of genuine argument. You can't keep up. It's not your fault, you were probably born this way.
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

Salty

The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 06:11:14 AM

Holocaust survivors are absolutely entitled to draw meaningful comparisons to Hitler, and are worth listening to. That being said, a Holocaust survivor making extremely reserved comments about being weary of demagogues doesn't give random crazies on the Internet license to claim that someone is literally a Nazi.

Is literally appointing an actual white nationalist propaganda disseminator to his cabinet not enough to maybe make that association? Seriously, RP?

This conversation has really reached the highest degree of stupidity I am capable of laughing at. After this, it'll just get sad.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard

#35
Quote from: Vivat Alty on November 18, 2016, 06:18:24 AM
"Intentionalist historians of Nazi Germany traditionally emphasize the unique role of Hitler in legitimizing and directing Nazi rule from the very beginning of the movement (Jaeckel 1972; Bracher 1979).7 On this view, German fascism is seen as a 'monocratic' system of rule (Alleinherrschaft) which is not only dependent on the ideological vision of the leader but on his personal decision making. As structuralist historians argue, however, this interpretation downplays the multi-dimensional nature of decision making in the Third Reich and the deliberate cultivation of the 'Führer myth' as a legitimation device, which allowed Nazi rulers to attribute policy successes to the leader while blaming lesser functionaries for the chaotic reality of polycratic rule (Broszat 1981; Mason 1971; Mommsen 1991b). As Kershaw points out, this allowed the Nazi elite to project an image of the Führer as a leader without sin, a person who could transcend sectional interests and rise above everyday political squabbles."

Or this, thanks to Cain BTW:
Quote"Fascism was intended to increase the effectiveness of the state in the management of economic and social processes, but resulted instead in the erosion of an older distinction between state and civil society, a fragmentation of government into multiple competing agencies, and a decline of the old state bureaucracy as a site of unified, autonomous decision making. Although founded in principle on the concentrated authority of the state, fascism in Germany devolved decision-making authority to co-opted elites, creating a dynamic towards polycracy. By undermining routinized administration, fascism led to infighting, short-termism, organizational chaos, and policy radicalization, encouraging leaders to embark on adventurist policies and periodic campaigns to mobilize their support base. As Broszat argues, National Socialism created a tendency towards expedience which 'disrupted any rational overall organization of government and reinforced the particularist egocentricity of the respective departmental values and ideologies' (1981: 358). In this environment, law effectively lost its universal regulatory function, degenerating into a system of contradictory decrees articulating the interests of power-elites who attempted to manipulate the apparatus to defeat rivals or to win favour with the leader. To this extent, at least, the rivalry between fascist oligarchs confirms one of the primary theoretical arguments of competitive elitism, namely that political outcomes are – to a large extent – determined by the balance of power between elites for influence in the state."

Congratulations, you can quote passages. Some of us use our own words. The best of us use both.

This isn't anything resembling an argument. There isn't anything to rebutt, agree with, or otherwise discuss. You haven't made an actual point.
"I never thought of shaving my beard and freeing the slaves, but I thought of shaving the slaves and freeing my beard!"
~ Abrahaham Lincololn

Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard

Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 06:16:48 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 06:11:14 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:57:47 AM
First of all, you don't know shit about my clitoris

Let me just stop you there. I don't care.

Oh, no need; that's been more than evident from the start. Along with every other clitoris on the planet.

Yes, as it turns out, women are regularly revolted at how few comparisons to Hitler I make during the course of casual conversation.
"I never thought of shaving my beard and freeing the slaves, but I thought of shaving the slaves and freeing my beard!"
~ Abrahaham Lincololn

Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard

#37
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 06:20:27 AM
Is literally appointing an actual white nationalist propaganda disseminator to his cabinet not enough to maybe make that association?

Honestly, that's a good question - better than most you guys have been asking - but my answer is, again, "No." A connect-the-dots association with white nationalism - no matter how much I or anyone else may vehemently disagree with it as an ideology - isn't enough on its own to be meaningfully compared to Nazi Germany. Racism and xenophobia alone do not make two situations truly comparable.

If Donald Trump has actual connections to the very real National Socialist Movement or the (now defunct) National Socialist Party of America, then yes - you are free to start calling him a Nazi, Neo-Nazi, sympathizer, whatever. Even the term itself at that point would be technically correct.

But drawing parallels between a guy who hires a guy who is accused of enabling a platform for a lot of assholes (including white nationalists) and Hitler seriously hurts your position if you intend to be taken seriously in a way that makes any real difference.

I mean, I suppose it all depends on who you're trying to convince, but it's certainly no pathway to diplomacy.

There are two kinds of people in the world who disagree with you: those who will never agree, and those who might change their minds. If your plan is to get people to change their minds, racing straight for the Clitler is the most reckless and argumentatively irresponsible path you can take.
"I never thought of shaving my beard and freeing the slaves, but I thought of shaving the slaves and freeing my beard!"
~ Abrahaham Lincololn

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

#38
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 06:20:27 AM
Is literally appointing an actual white nationalist propaganda disseminator to his cabinet not enough to maybe make that association?

Not really. There were crazy white supremacists long before Hitler.

Evil is not monolithic. Nor is even the more specific evil of racism monolithic. Being a charismatic racist white guy in a position of power doesn't necessarily make him literally Hitler any more than it makes him literally Jefferson Davis, or even for that matter literally Thomas Jefferson.

EDIT:
Given his ties to Russia I'd be inclined to compare him to the guys participating in or even inciting and leading the charges during the pogroms, although he isn't necessarily literally them either
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.


a plague on both your houses -Mercutio


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8


It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft


He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q


You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata


Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

If I filled a bathtub with piss and vomit and then filled up another bathtub woth moldy diarrhea, even though they would both be disgusting it would nevertheless be incorrect to claim that the two tubs both contained exactly the same thing
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.


a plague on both your houses -Mercutio


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8


It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft


He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q


You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata


Don't use the email address in my profile, I lost the password years ago

P3nT4gR4m

Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:57:47 AM
Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 05:39:44 AM

Let me put it this way: Hitler is like the clitoris. You don't just go stampeding straight towards it and blow your load; you work your way down, slowly, with forethought and tenderness. Going zero-to-Hitler turns everyone else off unless you have literally the best argument anyone has ever come up with, because people are constantly comparing anyone they don't like to goddamned Hitler.

First of all, you don't know shit about my clitoris and should not fucking talk for everyone even if you aren't a Ron Paul sockpuppet and have a vagina.


Nigel's clitoris was bitten by a cobra and after five days of excruciating pain... the cobra died.

He who laughs last, laughs best. He who laughs at Nigel's clitoris, it's definitely his last laugh.

The easiest way to determine Nigel's clitoris's age is to cut it in half and count the rings

Nigel's clitoris doesn't dial the wrong number. You answered the wrong phone.

Nigel's clitoris knows Victoria's secret.

If Nigel's clitoris was a Spartan in the movie 300, the movie would be called 1.

When Nigel's clitoris swims in the ocean, the sharks are in a steel cage.

Nigel's clitoris will never have a heart attack. Nigel's heart isn't nearly foolish enough to attack it.

Nigel's clitoris once kicked a horse in the chin. Its descendants today are known as giraffes.

Nigel's clitoris doesn't breathe air. It holds air hostage.

Nigel's clitoris can delete the Recycling Bin.

Nigel's clitoris has already been to Mars. That's why there are no signs of life.

Nigel's clitoris can kill two stones with one bird.

Nigel's clitoris's calendar goes straight from March 31st to April 2. No one fools Nigel's clitoris.

Nigel's clitoris wears sunglasses so that it's eyes won't hurt the sun.

If you see Nigel's clitoris crying it will grant you a wish, if your wish is dying.

When Nigel's clitoris works out it doesn't get stronger, the machine does.

Nigel's clitoris does not sleep; it waits.

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Junkenstein

 :mittens:

At least half of these should be newsfeed.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

The Wizard Joseph

You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 03:23:36 AM
The litmus test of Godwin's Law is providing a meaningful comparison.

No, it isn't.  I posted Godwin's Law above. 
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: chinagreenelvis on November 18, 2016, 06:11:14 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on November 18, 2016, 05:57:47 AM
First of all, you don't know shit about my clitoris

Let me just stop you there. I don't care.

Quote
Second,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-the-age-of-trump-grim-warnings-from-holocaust-survivors/2016/01/27/c65ea38c-c549-11e5-8965-0607e0e265ce_story.html?utm_term=.fb64fad6b633

Holocaust survivors are absolutely entitled to draw meaningful comparisons to Hitler, and are worth listening to. That being said, a Holocaust survivor making extremely reserved comments about being weary of demagogues doesn't give random crazies on the Internet license to claim that someone is literally a Nazi.

Discussing this woman's experiences and the merits of her testimony? No, that's not Godwin's Law, and thank you for providing the link. The stupid shit that Vivat and Roger are trolling? Totally Godwin's Law.

Done with you.  We already have an RP and a Brother Nihil.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.