News:

For my part, I've replaced optimism and believing the best of people by default with a grin and the absolute 100% certainty that if they cannot find a pig to fuck, they will buy some bacon and play oinking noises on YouTube.

Main Menu

General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread

Started by Mesozoic Mister Nigel, November 22, 2016, 04:26:22 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

The Wizard Joseph

Fuck. When I first heard of the story I didn't know it was a gas attack. I can see why people are beating the drums of War. Problem is there's no way to have a conventional War and a nuclear war would just destroy everybody. They got to be really sure it was Russia. I can't imagine who else would have a motive. Problem is I can't figure out why the Russians would want to ice somebody that they let go free in a prisoner Exchange if I have my info right. Much less why they would use a method so... Risky and prone to collateral damage.

And Trump has shit all to say.
Yay.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

Cain

It's probably not gas, nerve agents can come in liquid forms as well and that would be better for a targeted attack.  However nothing has been confirmed so far.

The other reason that Russia is the likely culprit is that terrorist groups and organised crime simply don't have the kind of sophisticated personnel or labs to create these kind of weapons.

The Wizard Joseph

Admitting that I know practically nothing the thought occurs to me that perhaps criminals or terrorists could buy it. But you're right Russia is the most likely.
You can't get out backward.  You have to go forward to go back.. better press on! - Willie Wonka, PBUH

Life can be seen as a game with no reset button, no extra lives, and if the power goes out there is no restarting.  If that's all you see life as you are not long for this world, and never will get it.

"Ayn Rand never swung a hammer in her life and had serious dominance issues" - The Fountainhead

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."
- Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality :lulz:

"You program the controller to do the thing, only it doesn't do the thing.  It does something else entirely, or nothing at all.  It's like voting."
- Billy, Aug 21st, 2019

"It's not even chaos anymore. It's BANAL."
- Doktor Hamish Howl

Junkenstein

Quote from: Cain on March 11, 2018, 01:44:13 PM
It's probably not gas, nerve agents can come in liquid forms as well and that would be better for a targeted attack.  However nothing has been confirmed so far.

The other reason that Russia is the likely culprit is that terrorist groups and organised crime simply don't have the kind of sophisticated personnel or labs to create these kind of weapons.

Question: Guy and daughter lived, which implies incorrect or ineffective dose. Would this not potentially implicate a third actor with access to similar but shittier tech? Russia acting through a proxy allowing deniability seems to be the general MO, assuming Russia is the main benefactor (Not that there are any other apparent).

Also, chances of Russian citizen acting, not Russian state? Guessing ex-spy probably has a few financial records of a couple of oligarchs. Or could be assumed to by someone of that nature. Would help explain the sloppy nature of events.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Cain

Getting the components needed for a nerve toxin isn't easy.  In addition to the specific expertise and equipment needed to produce it, you then have to get it into the UK, because there is no way you can import those components without some very heavily scrutinized import licences.

Beyond that, it's a terribly expensive way to kill someone.  A guy with a gun, or a knife, is always a sure bet.  So why do you use a nerve toxin, or polonium or similar? To make it clear it was you, without saying it was you, and to send a message.  That message is you will die horribly and in pain and it will take weeks, and you deserve it for being traitor scum.

As for why this doesn't appear to have killed them, there could be a number of factors.  Dispersal may have caused a lower than lethal payload to be administered.  The spy and his daughter were found relatively quickly, and nerve agents take time to work (they make it so the body cannot produce important enzymes, leading to the eventual breakdown of the body's ability to maintain itself).  Nerve toxins also appear to be hard to use, the Tokyo sarin attacks should have killed hundreds but only managed to kill less than 10 because dispersal lessened the impact of the sarin.  It may also be a new compound, which would explain why they are cagey when it comes to naming what it actually is.

Junkenstein

Appreciated. The sarin comparison is useful, as is the quick primer on how nerve agents actually work.

I'm still putting a fiver on Dacre as the culprit though.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Cain

I had a small side bet on it being the risotto at Zizzi's.  I know Salisbury very well, and Zizzi is overrated as fuck.

However, May's statement today confirms that it was a Novichok nerve agent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent

Cain

And...Tillerson is out at the State Department.  Pompeo at the CIA is to take over State, and some horrible Bush-era black site rendition relic is to take over at the CIA.

Tillerson knew he was being fired on Friday, which may be why he made such a forceful statement blaming Russia for the Salisbury nerve agent attack - it was his parting shot at the administration.

P3nT4gR4m

So, assuming that Putin ordered the hit. Further assuming that he knew a nerve toxin assassination was not going to go unnoticed by whom it may concern. He must have known zombie thatcher was going to get all hardass rhetoric on the subject. What's his next move?

Is this some tzarish dick waving thing? Like "what the fuck you gonna do about it now I have the US President in my back pocket?" or am I missing something?

I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

Cain

According to the latest reports, Tillerson didn't know he was going to be fired.  Interesting.

Cain

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 13, 2018, 01:56:18 PM
So, assuming that Putin ordered the hit. Further assuming that he knew a nerve toxin assassination was not going to go unnoticed by whom it may concern. He must have known zombie thatcher was going to get all hardass rhetoric on the subject. What's his next move?

Is this some tzarish dick waving thing? Like "what the fuck you gonna do about it now I have the US President in my back pocket?" or am I missing something?

Strangely enough, the Guardian just posted an article on the strategic logic of why Putin may have ordered this

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/13/russia-west-ties-bind-skripal-poisoning-trump

QuoteRussia has already learned from intervening in Syria that there is almost no red line it can't cross there, no war crime so unspeakable that the west won't quietly let it slide rather than get dragged into another war where all the likely outcomes are bad. It learned from Ukraine that all is not entirely well in Nato, and from dabbling in the US election not only that social media is a gift to information warfare, but also that western democracy isn't completely resolute in defending its integrity; that even a tainted victory might be preferred to defeat. Now it's moved on to testing all the other ties that used to bind, and which could present an obstacle to its ambitions, from the once-special relationship to historical EU alliances. It will surely be watching hawk-like for any sign that Brexit has weakened solidarity between Britain, France and Germany, or that the EU is now more preoccupied with internal than external threats.

Cain

In addition to that, it definitely is dick-waving...but for Russian domestic consumption.  There's a Presidential election coming up, Putin's popularity is slowly but surely decreasing, and no-one in Russia really believes Russia didn't do this.

It shows Putin is still top dog, he can brazenly kill traitors abroad and not suffer consequences.

P3nT4gR4m

Yeah, BBC showed an clip from a state interview last night, filmed just before the hit apparently. "Is there anything you can't forgive?", Putin "Betrayal" (comedy turn to camera)


I'm up to my arse in Brexit Numpties, but I want more.  Target-rich environments are the new sexy.
Not actually a meat product.
Ass-Kicking & Foot-Stomping Ancient Master of SHIT FUCK FUCK FUCK
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.
High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.
Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"computation is a pattern in the spacetime arrangement of particles, and it's not the particles but the pattern that really matters! Matter doesn't matter." -- Max Tegmark

LMNO

Quote from: Cain on March 13, 2018, 01:59:17 PM
According to the latest reports, Tillerson didn't know he was going to be fired.  Interesting.

And then they summarily fired the staffer who said Tillerson didn't know.

Cain

Yup, though apparently the guy in question was known as a Never-Trumper despite being a political appointee (?) so they were looking for an excuse.  In any event, State is now completely gutted.  Most major positions are unfilled.  41 ambassdorships, including to major countries like Germany, still have yet to be filled.  And Pompeo has a hate boner for both North Korea and Iran.

Next stop will be kicking out McMaster at the NSC and replacing him with John Bolton.  This is going to happen, it's only a matter of when.  And then Mattis will be outflanked on North Korea and Iran.  And then, if the negotiations even happen (North Korea has not yet responded to the US), Trump can blithely fuck them up and go on with the military action like he wanted to.