General Trump hilarity free-for-all thread

[Cain]

He didn't register ImpeachTrump.com though 

[Cain]

So, as a rule, I recommend not reading the HuffPo or linking to them, due to their policies on not paying writers.

I'm making an exception here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/michael-anton-trump-essay-publius-decius-mus_us_589ba947e4b09bd304bff3c8

[Junkenstein]

He didn't register ImpeachTrump.com though 

I'm not sure if that's a silly oversight if the oversized ego of the idiot refused to see it coming.

The who.is indicates it was registered in 2011 so the owner has some respectable prophecy skills at least.

Registrant Contact Information:
NameRegistration Private
OrganizationDomains By Proxy, LLC
AddressDomainsByProxy.com
Address14455 N. Hayden Road
CityScottsdale
State / ProvinceAZ
Postal Code85260
CountryUS
Phone+1.4806242599
Fax+1.4806242598

....Roger? Care to make a call and shed some light?

ETA - if who.is data posting is a no-no feel free to redact or tell me to. Its public data so I didn't see a problem but given the odd crazy fuck we get here I can see why it may be unwise.

[Salty]

So, as a rule, I recommend not reading the HuffPo or linking to them, due to their policies on not paying writers.

I'm making an exception here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/michael-anton-trump-essay-publius-decius-mus_us_589ba947e4b09bd304bff3c8

These people scare me a hell of a lot more than Trump. They are going to worm their way in forever now. At least, that's how it seems, like they know it's OK to come out from whatever rock mass public guilt from the Holocaust put them under.

[Cain]

Two names for you.

Felix Satter and Semion Mogilevich.  Satter links to the Bayrock Group.  Mogilevich allegedly links to Satter and Manafort.

Have fun now.

[Cain]

For those of you who didn't google the above names, here you go, you filthy degenerates:

http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/12/19/the-curious-world-of-donald-trumps-private-russian-connections/

So what have we learned from this deep dive into the network of Donald Trump's Russian/FSU connections?

First, the President-elect really is very "well-connected," with an extensive network of unsavory global underground connections that may well be unprecedented in White House history. In choosing his associates, evidently Donald Trump only pays cursory attention to questions of background, character, and integrity.

Second, Donald Trump has also literally spent decades cultivating senior relationships of all kinds with Russia and the FSU. And public and private senior Russian figures of all kinds have likewise spent decades cultivating him, not only as a business partner, but as a "useful idiot."

[The Wizard Joseph]

Yeah... kleptocracy doesn't even begin to describe the situation. I'd been told some time ago he was in balls deep debt to the "Russian Mafia". At a certain level the line between criminal syndicate and government sanctioned ops blurs. A very messy shadow war is the inevitable outcome. For my part I'm just focused on getting and keeping my shit together, hopefully supporting some good causes.

Don't tell the kids. Nobody really WANTS to know how dirty shit is behind the curtains. 

[Cain]

Mogilevich himself is much more than just a gangster, though.  Litvinenko said he was good friends with Putin, shortly before he had a nice cup of polonium, and that could just be coincidence, except for the FBI stating he is responsible for a slew of contract killings and trafficking in nuclear material besides.   Mogilevich has also been linked to Al-Qaeda, supplying them weapons.  He also owns banks, oil and gas interests, and is a frequent "silent partner" to oligarchs such as Dmytro Firtash...who previously employed The Donald's campaign manager, Paul Manafort.

Given how the FSB protects the Solntsevskaya Bratva, the idea that Mogilevich isn't spooked up is not credible.  Especially since he still freely walks around Moscow.

[The Wizard Joseph]

Yeah. See the thing, as I see it, is that there's no actual "Illuminati" in control of everything, but there ARE folks so far up the pyramid that to suggest otherwise to them would be a rather silly thing to do. There may not actually be anybody driving the bus, but there are definitely folks fighting over the title of official bus driver. Some of them are more competitive about it than others.

I don't know how far the craziness actually goes, but it's really clear to me from events and persons that have been part of my life that more than one set of hidden hands is at work in our world and that certain kinds of power and knowledge are NOT to be shared openly with the "masses" if you know what's good for you.

KYFMS is a survival axiom. I got shitall else to say.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah. See the thing, as I see it, is that there's no actual "Illuminati" in control of everything, but there ARE folks so far up the pyramid that to suggest otherwise to them would be a rather silly thing to do. There may not actually be anybody driving the bus, but there are definitely folks fighting over the title of official bus driver. Some of them are more competitive about it than others.

I don't know how far the craziness actually goes, but it's really clear to me from events and persons that have been part of my life that more than one set of hidden hands is at work in our world and that certain kinds of power and knowledge are NOT to be shared openly with the "masses" if you know what's good for you.

KYFMS is a survival axiom. I got shitall else to say.

So you are proposing a level of government that transcends bureaucracy?

I doubt it. Bureaucracy is an inverse pyramid.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The higher up you get, the more surrounded and bogged down by bureaucracy you become, to the point where it becomes more and more difficult to effect change at lower levels. People who make it to the top in a democracy are usually masters of wrangling bureaucracy, having spent many years navigating the ropes of writing, proposing, revising, compromising on, and voting for legislation. That deep knowledge of the horrors of bureaucracy -- the system -- is what allows people like, say, Hillary Clinton to be a relatively effective politician, ie. a leader who moves policy in the direction her constituents want it to go in.

There is a way to get to be the eye in the pyramid; that's called "a dictatorship". It cuts through the bureaucracy, permitting the leader at the top of the pyramid to make unilateral decisions and effect rapid change. You can see how well that usually goes by looking at any dictatorship ever. Without the tangles of bureaucracy to slow things down, a dictator can be solely responsible for making decisions that effect sweeping changes, all alone at the top, which is also the position they will be in when the mobs come.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oh, and then there's Trump, who is neither. Sit back and enjoy the clusterfuck in action, because there are two generally predictable ways this can go; either our bureaucratic system works, and he becomes the lamest lame duck president since Jimmy Carter, or he manages to transcend bureaucracy, which will be a complete and utter shitshow.

[The Wizard Joseph]

Yeah. See the thing, as I see it, is that there's no actual "Illuminati" in control of everything, but there ARE folks so far up the pyramid that to suggest otherwise to them would be a rather silly thing to do. There may not actually be anybody driving the bus, but there are definitely folks fighting over the title of official bus driver. Some of them are more competitive about it than others.

I don't know how far the craziness actually goes, but it's really clear to me from events and persons that have been part of my life that more than one set of hidden hands is at work in our world and that certain kinds of power and knowledge are NOT to be shared openly with the "masses" if you know what's good for you.

KYFMS is a survival axiom. I got shitall else to say.

So you are proposing a level of government that transcends bureaucracy?

I doubt it. Bureaucracy is an inverse pyramid.

No. I know for a fact that Government is not the most powerful or influential factor in our world. As much as I love me some reason and good social order those things are overshadowed by forceful coercion and superstition to this day, in some cases it serves these factors directly. International finance, religion, and the power of violence are very much how things are done in our world, but none of that is what most folks living day to day lives know or want. I certainly don't, but I can't change what IS.

Oh, and then there's Trump, who is neither. Sit back and enjoy the clusterfuck in action, because there are two generally predictable ways this can go; either our bureaucratic system works, and he becomes the lamest lame duck president since Jimmy Carter, or he manages to transcend bureaucracy, which will be a complete and utter shitshow.

The shitshow is just barely beginning. The good news is that he and what he represents are not unopposed. Nobody that isn't already crazy wants THAT eschaton, but the crazies are now in power so... 

<--- this is where I'm at on it.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

The government certainly doesn't have a monopoly on power, but legitimate power's center of gravity is in government. The reservoirs of power outside the government are fractious and competitive. They seldom manage to consolidate into an effective counterweight to government power that can bark orders without going through official channels, at least not on a massive or widespread scale. They compete to capture that center of gravity into their own orbits. Bureaucracy in this metaphor would, I guess, be the stiff medium through which that mass must be pulled, and it acts sort of like a non-Newtonian fluid  in that it strongly resists abrupt movements, and attempts to break that barrier are either stopped more or less cold, or if they can act with sufficient force, cause the fabric of that bureaucracy to shear or shatter.

So I guess the question is whether Trump's admittedly intense efforts carry enough mass with them to do lasting damage to the bureaucratic order. So far, the resistance seems to be holding as various forces align in direct opposition to his efforts and a lot of the energy Trump is putting into the system is lost to friction and apparently aimless indecision, and much of his original "mass" of support evaporates. But Trump's administration and a large part of his support in the public form a core of fundamentally hostile actors who are very openly trying to undermine and destroy the bureaucratic order. So... we'll see.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The government certainly doesn't have a monopoly on power, but legitimate power's center of gravity is in government. The reservoirs of power outside the government are fractious and competitive. They seldom manage to consolidate into an effective counterweight to government power that can bark orders without going through official channels, at least not on a massive or widespread scale. They compete to capture that center of gravity into their own orbits. Bureaucracy in this metaphor would, I guess, be the stiff medium through which that mass must be pulled, and it acts sort of like a non-Newtonian fluid  in that it strongly resists abrupt movements, and attempts to break that barrier are either stopped more or less cold, or if they can act with sufficient force, cause the fabric of that bureaucracy to shear or shatter.

So I guess the question is whether Trump's admittedly intense efforts carry enough mass with them to do lasting damage to the bureaucratic order. So far, the resistance seems to be holding as various forces align in direct opposition to his efforts and a lot of the energy Trump is putting into the system is lost to friction and apparently aimless indecision, and much of his original "mass" of support evaporates. But Trump's administration and a large part of his support in the public form a core of fundamentally hostile actors who are very openly trying to undermine and destroy the bureaucratic order. So... we'll see.

It's been a long time since we've had such a stark reminder that order and disorder may be in a state of tension, but that the goal is to maintain a balance between the two, not to destroy order.

Bureaucracy maintains a status quo that often contains stifling and oppressive elements, so it is frustrating to try to chip away at those elements trying to get them to change. In those cases, Grayface seems like the enemy, rigidly clinging to protocols and channels and hierarchy. But Grayface clings to those protocols and channels and hierarchy when people try to change the status quo to make things MORE stifling and oppressive, as well.

Grayface is bureaucracy. Grayface is the court system. Grayface is the fair trial. Grayface is filling out paperwork. Grayface is going through the proper channels. Grayface is compromise. Grayface is ten years from proposing a bill to passing the modified version into law. Grayface is checks and balances.

This doesn't mean that those who prefer disorder have to work for Grayface. But it is a reminder to appreciate Grayface, because it is as necessary as the forces of Discord are for STRIFE, which is the interface between order and disorder.