Author Topic: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar  (Read 200847 times)

Don Coyote

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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1365 on: June 21, 2017, 05:56:19 pm »

Cain

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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1366 on: June 21, 2017, 05:57:44 pm »
My facebook feed today: but whatabout AMURRICA?!?

I'm talking about the UK, so I don't really give a shit about America.  Sorry.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1367 on: June 21, 2017, 06:01:22 pm »
So I kinda feel like my advisor is off the deep end.

She wants preliminary results for a project she's been sitting on for three years but we just started this Fall. She wants these results in a month. She wants me to figure out from scratch with no guidance how to use imaging software no one else in the lab knows how to use, that was designed for immunofluorescence, to quantify IHC-DAB. She gave me about four days to figure this out, and to perform a validation experiment using tissue from a previous grad student who is gone. Going through that student's data, I already can see and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the previous data, which has been accepted for publication, is bad. At least the cell counts for the supraoptic nucleus are bad. I don't have time to deal with this and it's also not my problem, but I have a feeling it is about to become my problem on top of having three weeks to process and assay 124 brains.

The reason she has a problem with bad data is because her approach to training is to throw a project at a student and tell them to figure it out, just as she is doing with me right now. If she had taken 20 minutes to train the last student, they would have known that they were counting cells in a region caudal to the supraoptic nucleus, and this data would not be bad. I can correctly quantify staining in these tissues, but I can't use these tissues to validate my method because the existing data is bad... this is a waste of my time. And everyone else's time.

I always wonder if people do that because they think the student will understand the material better through "independent discovery," or if they get some sick satisfaction from the thought of someone else not being able to do stuff that they themselves know how to do (Or maybe don't know how to do, for that matter). Based on the fact that she's been sitting on the project 3 years, I'm going to assume the latter.

The great thing here is that she has no idea how to use this software. She's never tried. She can't even critique my progress because, as became clear to me when she asked me if I was taking pictures of every tissue section, she has zero idea how to use it. You have to take pictures of all the tissue to be analyzed, that's how the software works. I suspect she has used this approach with other students in the past, and that's exactly why the data I'm trying to use as validation for my method is bad; she herself didn't know how to do what she asked the grad student to do, so she couldn't check the data to make sure it was collected correctly.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1368 on: June 21, 2017, 06:03:38 pm »
My facebook feed today: but whatabout AMURRICA?!?

I'm talking about the UK, so I don't really give a shit about America.  Sorry.

That's a great time to use the "For my next trick, I will turn this conversation into a conversation about ME!" meme.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


POFP

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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1369 on: June 21, 2017, 06:46:17 pm »
So I kinda feel like my advisor is off the deep end.

She wants preliminary results for a project she's been sitting on for three years but we just started this Fall. She wants these results in a month. She wants me to figure out from scratch with no guidance how to use imaging software no one else in the lab knows how to use, that was designed for immunofluorescence, to quantify IHC-DAB. She gave me about four days to figure this out, and to perform a validation experiment using tissue from a previous grad student who is gone. Going through that student's data, I already can see and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the previous data, which has been accepted for publication, is bad. At least the cell counts for the supraoptic nucleus are bad. I don't have time to deal with this and it's also not my problem, but I have a feeling it is about to become my problem on top of having three weeks to process and assay 124 brains.

The reason she has a problem with bad data is because her approach to training is to throw a project at a student and tell them to figure it out, just as she is doing with me right now. If she had taken 20 minutes to train the last student, they would have known that they were counting cells in a region caudal to the supraoptic nucleus, and this data would not be bad. I can correctly quantify staining in these tissues, but I can't use these tissues to validate my method because the existing data is bad... this is a waste of my time. And everyone else's time.

I always wonder if people do that because they think the student will understand the material better through "independent discovery," or if they get some sick satisfaction from the thought of someone else not being able to do stuff that they themselves know how to do (Or maybe don't know how to do, for that matter). Based on the fact that she's been sitting on the project 3 years, I'm going to assume the latter.

The great thing here is that she has no idea how to use this software. She's never tried. She can't even critique my progress because, as became clear to me when she asked me if I was taking pictures of every tissue section, she has zero idea how to use it. You have to take pictures of all the tissue to be analyzed, that's how the software works. I suspect she has used this approach with other students in the past, and that's exactly why the data I'm trying to use as validation for my method is bad; she herself didn't know how to do what she asked the grad student to do, so she couldn't check the data to make sure it was collected correctly.

Ah, so it sounds like she's refusing to admit ignorance out of embarrassment, and/or so she can pass off the responsibility if push comes to shove. Sounds like a true contributor to the scientific community.

It always amazes me when people in the scientific community have a hard time admitting when they don't know something or are unwilling to learn. Both of those things are like the greatest parts about science. You can go

"Why? Well, I have no clue why. But I should have the answer after I learn how to BLOW IT UP WITH LAZURZ AND SMASH IT INTO OTHER THINGS AT HIGH SPEEDS AND MAKE IT LIGHT UP WITH VARIOUS CHEMICALS AWWWWW YEAHHHHHHH."
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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1370 on: June 21, 2017, 10:00:48 pm »
The thing that's driving me crazy is that she's an excellent teacher, as well as a very very intelligent researcher with a proven track record. I think she just really can't or doesn't want to put in the time to train her graduate students. She has an R1 grant FFS, she has to step up. I don't think she even read my email explaining the problem.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Cain

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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1371 on: June 22, 2017, 03:14:33 pm »
My facebook feed today: but whatabout AMURRICA?!?

I'm talking about the UK, so I don't really give a shit about America.  Sorry.

That's a great time to use the "For my next trick, I will turn this conversation into a conversation about ME!" meme.

I noticed someone beat me to that  :lol:

Don Coyote

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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1372 on: June 22, 2017, 05:11:25 pm »
Someone unfriended me on FB because I told him his method of evaluating a fucking card in Magic was wrong.

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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1373 on: June 22, 2017, 08:21:13 pm »
Someone unfriended me on FB because I told him his method of evaluating a fucking card in Magic was wrong.

Sounds like he did you a favor.
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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1374 on: June 22, 2017, 11:07:07 pm »
Someone unfriended me on FB because I told him his method of evaluating a fucking card in Magic was wrong.

Sounds like he did you a favor.

Yeah that.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1375 on: June 23, 2017, 01:17:42 am »
So, new guy (he's been there 2 days longer than me) has a sick wife.  Like in the ICU getting organs removed kinda sick.  Her recovery is not assured.

And he's terrified that I'm going to let him go because he hasn't been to work this week, and he's still a "contingent employee" (also means "no paid time off of any kind").  Instead, I send him database work to do so he can bill hours while he sits next to his unconscious wife, both taking his mind off of a situation he can't control AND letting him make rent.  My boss thinks that makes me a saint.

It doesn't.  It's just good management, for 3 reasons:

1.  That database work needs to be done.
2.  He's not at work in an industrial environment with his head not in the game, so we don't wind up hosing him out of the gears.
3.  Anything I do at this point sends a message, both to him and the rest of the crew.  One message is "if you fall down, go fuck yourself."  this makes a crew go bad.  Another message is "your job is safe, too bad you can't make the rent".  This doesn't inspire hatred, but neither does it inspire loyalty.  The last potential message is "we have your back", and this makes employees feel secure.  And employees that feel secure will make work part of their life, and THAT means better production, better thinking, and all around better lives for everyone.

So what do you know?  They were right about altruism being a survival mechanism.  This isn't goodness, it's just plain pragmatism.

How is this not obvious to everyone?
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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1376 on: June 23, 2017, 02:35:17 am »
Someone unfriended me on FB because I told him his method of evaluating a fucking card in Magic was wrong.

That's just sad. Not for you, for him.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1377 on: June 23, 2017, 02:39:52 am »
I shadowed an MD today! It was super super super fun, like basically being a doctor is the customer service end of science. So fascinating, and so many different things going on! Doctoring might be the perfect profession for people who have ADHD but also really like science. And yesterday I actually got my advisor into the lab to show her the issues with the tissue I was supposed to be using for validation, and when I walked her through the process and showed her the tissue she agreed with me, which is GREAT because now I can put my time and energy into something that will actually move the project forward.

Good times, good times.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Don Coyote

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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1378 on: June 23, 2017, 02:45:23 am »
Someone unfriended me on FB because I told him his method of evaluating a fucking card in Magic was wrong.

Sounds like he did you a favor.

Yeah that.

Someone unfriended me on FB because I told him his method of evaluating a fucking card in Magic was wrong.

That's just sad. Not for you, for him.

Yeah.


Don Coyote

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Re: Open Bar: Fake News, Fake Bar
« Reply #1379 on: June 23, 2017, 02:46:19 am »
So, new guy (he's been there 2 days longer than me) has a sick wife.  Like in the ICU getting organs removed kinda sick.  Her recovery is not assured.

And he's terrified that I'm going to let him go because he hasn't been to work this week, and he's still a "contingent employee" (also means "no paid time off of any kind").  Instead, I send him database work to do so he can bill hours while he sits next to his unconscious wife, both taking his mind off of a situation he can't control AND letting him make rent.  My boss thinks that makes me a saint.

It doesn't.  It's just good management, for 3 reasons:

1.  That database work needs to be done.
2.  He's not at work in an industrial environment with his head not in the game, so we don't wind up hosing him out of the gears.
3.  Anything I do at this point sends a message, both to him and the rest of the crew.  One message is "if you fall down, go fuck yourself."  this makes a crew go bad.  Another message is "your job is safe, too bad you can't make the rent".  This doesn't inspire hatred, but neither does it inspire loyalty.  The last potential message is "we have your back", and this makes employees feel secure.  And employees that feel secure will make work part of their life, and THAT means better production, better thinking, and all around better lives for everyone.

So what do you know?  They were right about altruism being a survival mechanism.  This isn't goodness, it's just plain pragmatism.

How is this not obvious to everyone?

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