Author Topic: Look both ways before you cross  (Read 23582 times)

Chelagoras The Boulder

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #120 on: July 03, 2017, 06:52:15 pm »
I actually know enough serious non-Nazi Norse pagans to view it as just another flavor of paganism, same as wiccans or occultists. Obviously, I still acknowledge that Neo-Nazis  have co-opted Odinism as a means to spread hatred, but seeing as co-opting a faith to spread their faith seems to be a tactic of most hate groups, I don't give grief to anyone who unironically just thinks the Norse gods are cool and have some pretty fun stories, in the same way I don't write off my Christian friends just cuz the KKK is religiously Christian.

That's pretty much it.

I have a valknut tattoo I can't show around certain people without them thinking I'm a neo-nazi, which really pisses me off.

For my part, Norse paganism is about accepting the consequences of your actions. Accepting that you are fucked, the world is out to knock you down so stop fucking whining about it, get up and get on with life. The sagas have some damn cool stories and moral metahphors and Odin is a fascinating deity with many different t facets that appeal to me.

However wiccans REALLY annoy me. I respect their right to believe what they want, just always strikes me as cherry picking whatever gods you feel like without actualy knowing what they represent. Most of them are just christians in denial who think they can replace the holy trinity with random celtic gods and nobody will notice.

But if it works for them, it works for them.

1.  I can't say for England, but that sort of tattoo over here means only one thing. 

2.  Nobody knows what ANY God represents.  They could tell us literally anything, and we'd have to believe it.
Eh, I try to give my norse friends the benefit of the doubt. just because the symbols look similar doesn't mean they mean the same thing. A wolf's cross is a wolf's cross, a swastika is a swastika.
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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #121 on: July 03, 2017, 06:56:25 pm »
I recently watched a documentary called "Hypernormalization"... coming off of that, I'd say that "right and left" in any real sense of the word seems to have been replaced with two fake positions, both of which are looking to manage the stability of the system, rather than truly improve anything. On the "left" the management is attempting to normalize as much as possible so that subgroups don't become so disenfranchised that they flip out and revolt. On the "right" the management is attempting to keep everything in stasis.

The documentary was pretty depressing since it focused on the idea that all politics starting in the late 70's basically gave up trying to make the world a better place.  :horrormirth:

American turn it's back on the future when they threw Carter out in favor of Reagan.

What's hilarious, though is that both sides think their representatives aren't crazy enough.

The documentary really focused on Kissenger as being the main architect of the change... it does a nice job of cause/effect tying Kissenger's treatment of Asad in Syria leading to the creation of suicide bombers, Hezbollah, the messes with Lybia, the Iraq War, the foreign fighters in Iraq after the war, Putin, Trump and a "reality" where no one is sure what is and isn't true. I'm sure the documentary is biased itself, but it was a pretty wild ride through the past 40 years.
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Fallenkezef

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #122 on: July 04, 2017, 03:47:14 pm »
I recently watched a documentary called "Hypernormalization"... coming off of that, I'd say that "right and left" in any real sense of the word seems to have been replaced with two fake positions, both of which are looking to manage the stability of the system, rather than truly improve anything. On the "left" the management is attempting to normalize as much as possible so that subgroups don't become so disenfranchised that they flip out and revolt. On the "right" the management is attempting to keep everything in stasis.

The documentary was pretty depressing since it focused on the idea that all politics starting in the late 70's basically gave up trying to make the world a better place.  :horrormirth:

This is basicly what I'm getting at.

It's a big con job. People are convinced that if they vote left the world will be a better place, the thing is nobody in the upper echelons of the left give a shit.

The thing is, people have started to realise this so they are going to the extremes in search of change, far left and far right. The problem being is extremists don't want to change the world, they just want to watch it burn.
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Fallenkezef

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #123 on: July 04, 2017, 03:56:33 pm »


1.  I can't say for England, but that sort of tattoo over here means only one thing. 

2.  Nobody knows what ANY God represents.  They could tell us literally anything, and we'd have to believe it.

For me, Odin is represented in the Prose and Poetic Eddas. The sagas appeal to me as does the philosophy.

Do i believe that there is a literal Valhalla? That I honestly do not know, I'd like to think so. However I'm too much the free thinker to see it as much more than metaphor and cultural record. It's a rejection of christian hypocrisy in many ways.

The problem with the neo-nazis is they are just bloody idiots, blindly copying himmler's made-up occultism and thinking it's real. The dumb fuckers don't even realise the difference between nazi germanic occultism and norse for fucks sake.

Yet it gives those of us who follow traditional norse beliefs a really bad name.
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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #124 on: July 04, 2017, 06:11:28 pm »


You make the assumption that brexit is based on xenophobia.

 :lulz:

This fucking thread.

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #125 on: July 05, 2017, 01:16:24 am »

And why do people take Wicca any religion more seriously than Scientology?

FTFY.

The big religions at least have something that looks like edivence to the untrained eye: to wit the appeal to tradition and the argumentum ad populum. Scientology and Wicca have neither of these, both were invented (just barely) within living memory and neither is very popular outside of Hollywood.

(and neopaganism lacks the argumentum ad populum)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 01:19:34 am by Prelate Diogenes Shandor »
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #126 on: July 05, 2017, 01:42:08 am »

And why do people take Wicca any religion more seriously than Scientology?

FTFY.

The big religions at least have something that looks like edivence to the untrained eye: to wit the appeal to tradition and the argumentum ad populum. Scientology and Wicca have neither of these, both were invented (just barely) within living memory and neither is very popular outside of Hollywood.

(and neopaganism lacks the argumentum ad populum)

Wicca exists so that grown-ass adults can stand around in a public park "casting a circle" while passers-bye laugh at them.

Much like most religions, except that they - like Southern Baptists - are silly enough to do it outdoors.
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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #127 on: July 05, 2017, 04:37:11 am »
Wicca is how you say "I want to believe on magic but I'm scared of LSD" in interpretive dance.

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #128 on: July 05, 2017, 05:38:02 am »
Wicca is how you say "I want to believe on magic but I'm scared of LSD" in interpretive dance.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 :lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Cramulus

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #129 on: July 05, 2017, 07:29:59 pm »
Hey Fallenkezef  - if you haven't escaped yet, would still love to know your opinion on the stuff in my last post ITT...

while the stats I provided are US-focused, I'm pretty sure the story is similar elsewhere.

I've seen both sides of the welfare state in action and have some personal bias. My partner's ex hasn't worked for three years because he prefers NOT to work, hasn't paid a penny to support his daughter and has openly admitted that one of the reasons he doesn't work is because he doesn't want the CSA to take his money.

My mother is on disability and got screwed over by the changes to that benefit, took a long time to appeal and get her the help she needs. I have a lingering anger for mr Hunt due to that.

It's a given that all systems like this will have some "abusers".

But most of the people receiving unemployment benefits aren't like that. Most of them want to get back to work ASAP. The safety net exists so they aren't forced into homelessness or crime while they look for work.

Isn't it worth a few people getting a "free ride" in order to keep a ton of people out of the poverty trap?



The system needs to work both ways, an obligation to provide work. Which is why I favour a national service model.

Hunting for a job is a full time job. Wouldn't people get off welfare faster if they actually had time to job hunt and educate themselves?


Also
I feel like the state could keep people nursing on its teat forever if it was getting all this sweet low-cost labor. If people's service is valuable, then what's the state's incentive to get them off it?

Also
There are countries with no welfare or unemployment benefits.. What happens there, when you lose your job? What happens to the poverty rate and wealth concentration over time?


Also
if you're fiscally conservative, how do you feel about the measurable economic impact of the safety net?


  • According to the Census Bureau estimates, unemployment insurance kept 3.2 million Americans from falling below the poverty line in 2010 alone.
  • A study commissioned by the Labor Department under the Bush administration showed that for every dollar spent on unemployment benefits, two dollars are pumped back into the economy.
  • The Council of Economic Advisors estimates that in 2009 and 2010, GDP was boosted by 0.8% and 800,000 more jobs were created as a result of unemployment benefits for the long-term unemployed.
            Source: US Department of Labor


This is why welfare was invented by conservatives.

Ziegejunge

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #130 on: July 05, 2017, 07:31:51 pm »
Chiming in to add, as non-politically as possible, that I too am a fan of Norse mythology. I identify with it closely to a certain extent, and while I doubt I'll ever sincerely practice the faith in a meaningful way, I do derive a lot of meaning from the myths and stories.

Applied practically, the current culmination is that both of our dogs have tags with the Vegvísir (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegv%C3%ADsir) on them. ("If this sign is carried, one will never lose one's way in storms or bad weather, even when the way is not known".) We love our doggies to an almost irrational extent, so expressing that love in arguably irrational ways doesn't seem too incongruous.

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #131 on: July 05, 2017, 08:35:37 pm »
I can identify with a ton of shit, from Gautama Buddha to the cast of Silicon Valley, doesn't mean I'm retarded enough to describe myself as a Buddhist or a f'kin Bachmanian tho. Anyone who does, I reserve the right to fuck with mercilessly.
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Fallenkezef

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #132 on: July 05, 2017, 09:00:17 pm »
Hey Fallenkezef  - if you haven't escaped yet, would still love to know your opinion on the stuff in my last post ITT...

while the stats I provided are US-focused, I'm pretty sure the story is similar elsewhere.

I've seen both sides of the welfare state in action and have some personal bias. My partner's ex hasn't worked for three years because he prefers NOT to work, hasn't paid a penny to support his daughter and has openly admitted that one of the reasons he doesn't work is because he doesn't want the CSA to take his money.

My mother is on disability and got screwed over by the changes to that benefit, took a long time to appeal and get her the help she needs. I have a lingering anger for mr Hunt due to that.

It's a given that all systems like this will have some "abusers".

But most of the people receiving unemployment benefits aren't like that. Most of them want to get back to work ASAP. The safety net exists so they aren't forced into homelessness or crime while they look for work.

Isn't it worth a few people getting a "free ride" in order to keep a ton of people out of the poverty trap?



The system needs to work both ways, an obligation to provide work. Which is why I favour a national service model.

Hunting for a job is a full time job. Wouldn't people get off welfare faster if they actually had time to job hunt and educate themselves?


Also
I feel like the state could keep people nursing on its teat forever if it was getting all this sweet low-cost labor. If people's service is valuable, then what's the state's incentive to get them off it?

Also
There are countries with no welfare or unemployment benefits.. What happens there, when you lose your job? What happens to the poverty rate and wealth concentration over time?


Also
if you're fiscally conservative, how do you feel about the measurable economic impact of the safety net?


  • According to the Census Bureau estimates, unemployment insurance kept 3.2 million Americans from falling below the poverty line in 2010 alone.
  • A study commissioned by the Labor Department under the Bush administration showed that for every dollar spent on unemployment benefits, two dollars are pumped back into the economy.
  • The Council of Economic Advisors estimates that in 2009 and 2010, GDP was boosted by 0.8% and 800,000 more jobs were created as a result of unemployment benefits for the long-term unemployed.
            Source: US Department of Labor


This is why welfare was invented by conservatives.

Not ignoring you, had a ton of work dumped on my lap. i will respond properly, with thought out answers when i get some time.
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Cramulus

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #133 on: July 05, 2017, 09:31:49 pm »
thanks dude! I know how it is.

Prelate Diogenes Shandor

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Re: Look both ways before you cross
« Reply #134 on: July 06, 2017, 02:03:41 am »
What we really need is a welfare system that drops off gradually. Like for every five cents you make above a certain minimum they strike three cents off your assistance, that way there's never a situation where a pay increase can leave you making more than two cents less than you were before (and even that only happens on a one cent increase that pushes you to a multiple of five).
Praise NHGH! For the tribulation of all sentient beings.

a plague on both your houses -Mercutio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrTGgpWmdZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWd7nPjJH8

It is an unfortunate fact that every man who seeks to disseminate knowledge must contend not only against ignorance itself, but against false instruction as well. No sooner do we deem ourselves free from a particularly gross superstition, than we are confronted by some enemy to learning who would plunge us back into the darkness -H.P.Lovecraft

He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster -Nietzsche

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

You are a fluke of the universe, and whether you can hear it of not the universe is laughing behind your back -Deteriorata

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